09:43, Fri 11 Jan
Jacques Moran
Being the best of all time in your sport and taking it to new heights >>> being the 4th best player of your era

I take your point, but fundamentally disagree with the way you qualify the best British sportsman.

If you think winning a Wimbledon title is less of a sporting achievement that winning the Darts World Championship then we don't have a debate going on I'm afraid.

Don't get me wrong, Darts is incredibly skilful of course, but Murray has had some of the greatest players of all time directly across the net trying to stop him and applying their own skills in offence against him for many hours, in unbelievable temperatures, and yet he's still come out on top on many occasions.

It gives Andy the edge over Phil imho.
There's too much opinion and not enough fact.
09:50, Fri 11 Jan
A_n_E
IanT
There's no bigger fan than Ian Botham than me, but yeah.

i believe oldham is quite a big botham fan too, he's seen his penis as well.

IanT
Considering what he witnessed as a kid, the era in which he peaked, and his great personality including his emotional side, I'd say so.

look at the era botham was in, richards et al.

coe's records stood for years.

faldo's era was just as strong with the likes of seve yet he was the best golfer in the world for about 5 years.

but daley thompson is the UK's best of the best. FACT.

The only one I would consider there is Botham because, like Murray, he had other greats directly opposed to him trying to stop him applying his skills.

I don't consider sports where you do your own thing such a test I'm afraid. Brilliant sportsmen, don't get me wrong, but Thompson or Faldo (another genuine great btw) or Wiggins were largely able to concentrate on their own skills.
There's too much opinion and not enough fact.
09:57, Fri 11 Jan
IanT
I don't consider sports where you do your own thing such a test I'm afraid.

how strange. so you'd think a table tennis player or squash player would be a better sportman than botham etc based on the fact they play one on one?
AnE - conspiracy theorist, ardent viler-hater, nutjob cyclist, Cubie-bater, go-to iconoclast
10:02, Fri 11 Jan
Probably the best British sportsman of my lifetime, on so many different levels.

I was there on Centre Court when he won his first Wimbledon.

Priceless.

Better than Best? Charlton? Moore? Cavendish? Wiggins? Calzaghhe? Fury? Wilkinson? Hatton? Froch? Camp?

Yes, the hyperbole gang are out. He was good at hitting a ball with a tennis stick 👍
10:04, Fri 11 Jan
What has 'and where he came from' got to do with his tennis?
10:17, Fri 11 Jan
He comes from a background that's dominated by the wealthy.

Don't get me wrong, his parents weren't using foodbanks, but what he's accomplished ( leaving home at 15 to train Barcelona ) versus other players who've had very privileged upbringings is something else.
Fat Buddha
Probably the best British sportsman of my lifetime, on so many different levels.

I was there on Centre Court when he won his first Wimbledon.

Priceless.

Better than Best? Charlton? Moore? Cavendish? Wiggins? Calzaghhe? Fury? Wilkinson? Hatton? Froch? Camp?

Yes
10:20, Fri 11 Jan
A_n_E
IanT
There's no bigger fan than Ian Botham than me, but yeah.

i believe oldham is quite a big botham fan too, he's seen his penis as well.

IanT
Considering what he witnessed as a kid, the era in which he peaked, and his great personality including his emotional side, I'd say so.

look at the era botham was in, richards et al.

coe's records stood for years.

faldo's era was just as strong with the likes of seve yet he was the best golfer in the world for about 5 years.

but daley thompson is the UK's best of the best. FACT.

I completely disagree about Daley Thompson. He was amazing but in a very, very, very niche event.
10:24, Fri 11 Jan
A_n_E
IanT
I don't consider sports where you do your own thing such a test I'm afraid.

how strange. so you'd think a table tennis player or squash player would be a better sportman than botham etc based on the fact they play one on one?

I don't know if you follow cricket much, but it's very much one on one.
There's too much opinion and not enough fact.
10:37, Fri 11 Jan
Holdswor​th_MaraSonner
I completely disagree about Daley Thompson. He was amazing but in a very, very, very niche event.

he could have been a success in many of his disciplines. his 100m time in the decathlon at LA84 would have got him 4th in the 100m final. whilst i agree murray has been brilliant, for me he's nowhere near the best british athlete ever.
AnE - conspiracy theorist, ardent viler-hater, nutjob cyclist, Cubie-bater, go-to iconoclast
10:38, Fri 11 Jan
He's been our best tenniser, but it's a bit of a push to call him the best British athlete ever - don't know who is mind, but it ain't Andy.
10:39, Fri 11 Jan
ok so a squash player is better than the likes of wiggins etc?

also cricket is nothing like one on one. you have bowling changes, other batsmen, fielders.
AnE - conspiracy theorist, ardent viler-hater, nutjob cyclist, Cubie-bater, go-to iconoclast
11:03, Fri 11 Jan
A_n_E
Holdswor​th_MaraSonner
I completely disagree about Daley Thompson. He was amazing but in a very, very, very niche event.

he could have been a success in many of his disciplines. his 100m time in the decathlon at LA84 would have got him 4th in the 100m final. whilst i agree murray has been brilliant, for me he's nowhere near the best british athlete ever.

I love Daley. Absolutely love him. But there was little competition in decathlon in the era. And his scores aren’t even in the same league as Ashton Eaton etc.

And I love Seb Coe even more. And he’s definitely the best British Indian athlete ever 😊

But the two best British athletes (let alone sports people more broadly) of all time by any measure are Farah and Radcliffe.

Farah because he’s the British record holder at every distance from 1500m (faster than Coe, Cram, Ovett in their event) to the marathon.

Radcliffe because her World Record will probably stand for 20-30 years in total and at her peak she ran faster than any British man for 2 straight years.

Leaving aside any debate about other factors of course.
11:18, Fri 11 Jan
farah should be faster than coe, nutrition, training etc has all got so much better, it just shows how good coe was that his record stood for 16 years.

come back to me about farah when he holds some world records.
AnE - conspiracy theorist, ardent viler-hater, nutjob cyclist, Cubie-bater, go-to iconoclast
11:26, Fri 11 Jan
A_n_E
farah should be faster than coe, nutrition, training etc has all got so much better, it just shows how good coe was that his record stood for 16 years.

come back to me about farah when he holds some world records.

Farah should be faster than Coe in an event he never competed in or trained for? Ridiculous. Even Coe, who has never been overly humble, says Farah is streets ahead.

There has never been an athlete in history with the same range as Farah. He was never interested in world records (I wish he had been) but I’ve no doubt he could have broken a few. And he’s the best pure racer I’ve ever seen.