10:15, Tue 12 Feb
If I understand it the League can't screw us because it's not the League making the decision - it is the independent arbitral panel.

It is however a very bad look for the League to ask for a higher penalty because they want to send a message to Ren Xuandong. How could we ever take any League ruling on anything (red cards for instance) seriously ever again? We could point to evidence of bias that makes it impossible for a fair decision.
11:24, Tue 12 Feb
Agree Spike. Can't see it being 12 really can't - that's what you get for going into admin, 6 would be more proportionate surely? and you are also correct that if it is 'revenge' driven then they really are a joke.
11:32, Tue 12 Feb
There's also the point that if you go into admin and take the 12 point penalty - doesn't that wipe out previous seasons' debts for FFP purposes? Not checked that though.
11:37, Tue 12 Feb
Well if the EFL have got as much communication from Ren that we have, no wonder they're pished off with us. Dan has been saying it for ages now but a lot of people seem to be dismissing it, and rather talk about why other clubs dont seem to be in the same position.
11:37, Tue 12 Feb
Not sure if that's been changed, but I know in the past it has...Leicester, Saints etc?
11:38, Tue 12 Feb
Fair enough, but it does seem harsh as emotionally it's just punishing us.
11:53, Tue 12 Feb
Spike
This has always been (one part of) my argument.

To say that the EFL are looking to screw us because we annoyed them - if true, makes them look petty, unprofessional and driven by temper rather than reason.

The EFL struggles with credibility as it is - to put it mildly - and this kind of suggested vindictive overkill would make them look like even bigger idiots...if that were possible.

Any punishment must be proportionate and just to stand up.

As I have said many times, if the punishment were 12 points I would be amazed - and doubly amazed if it was upheld.

I'm in a different position to you Spike; I can understand why the league are throwing the book at us.

It's another thing whether the panel will uphold it or not, but I think the fact it's got that far indicates that despite Blues using some heavyweight lawyers the EFL think they have a strong case as the proposal of 12 points was communicated to all clubs on Friday.
11:58, Tue 12 Feb
Do you know which firm is representing us?
12:04, Tue 12 Feb
We signed a player, Pedersen, whilst under embargo, apparently. That is the thing that you say really gives them a hard on for us. Well, given that senior administrators at the club were removed from their positions, does that not open up the possibility that they were ultimately responsible for any failing in governance. Dong Ren didn't do the day to day admin did he? He wouldn't have a dog and bark himself.

We overspent, I think being critical of naivety is fair, but there seems to a lot of good going on at the club too.

One question? With new investment, if there are deals for sponsorship etc. must they be announced through HKSE?
12:04, Tue 12 Feb
Heard that yes. However, given the knowledge that other clubs have complained about us to the EFL, then it's totally in the league's interest to say 'look, we've listened to and you and asked for 12, etc'.
However, the fact they've communicated that doesn't say, to me at least, they are any more confident of getting it than if they had stayed silent.
Could be famous last words of course, but what the EFL says and does are often miles apart.
12:06, Tue 12 Feb
12 is mental. Absolutely Draconian.

What's the point in carrying on with the season?

I will give £100 to the charity of Andy's choosing if another club gets a deduction like this next season.
We deserve our club back

H-Bomb

"Oh Nikola Zigic"
12:06, Tue 12 Feb
I don't think anyone was removed from their positions were they? They resigned I believe. In which case, that looks worse for us.
12:07, Tue 12 Feb
Agree. Your £100 is safe.
12:16, Tue 12 Feb
As I have said, often. I get why they were annoyed. I get the notion of an aggravated offence.

To some extent it will depend what the points split is between the offence of breeching the regs and the aggravating factor.

What they can't do is just act like spoiled kids and spank us for the sake of spanking us because we have put their nose out of joint. if this is the matrix going forward then fine, other clubs will know what they are in for. there will also have to be a proper definition of what constitutes an aggravating factor.

We'll see what happens. As I said before, I will be surprised if 12 points gets levied and upheld.

This smells (again) of the notion being floated in the media to see what the reaction is, which the EFL have done before, and still makes them look like unprofessional tossers.
12:17, Tue 12 Feb
I am certain in my opinion that you're correct with your final sentence there.
Mayor and others have said on many occasions how the EFL will not comment on things until this is done etc, etc, and won't confirm a hearing date. I don't doubt that reporting to be true.
In reality though, loads has found its way into the media which is not right. The club have, albeit of their own making, some right to be pissed off with the EFL too.
12:20, Tue 12 Feb
Burlington Bertie
We signed a player, Pedersen, whilst under embargo, apparently. That is the thing that you say really gives them a hard on for us. Well, given that senior administrators at the club were removed from their positions, does that not open up the possibility that they were ultimately responsible for any failing in governance. Dong Ren didn't do the day to day admin did he? He wouldn't have a dog and bark himself.

We overspent, I think being critical of naivety is fair, but there seems to a lot of good going on at the club too.

One question? With new investment, if there are deals for sponsorship etc. must they be announced through HKSE?

I would offer that maybe the SMT went BECAUSE Ren did it himself.
12:20, Tue 12 Feb
Redditch Blue
Heard that yes. However, given the knowledge that other clubs have complained about us to the EFL, then it's totally in the league's interest to say 'look, we've listened to and you and asked for 12, etc'.

If it's true that other clubs demanded that we be beaten with sticks, and if it's true that 12 points is the recommendation and the precedent going forward, I would imagine there are plenty of clubs now all over their pants and wishing they had kept their gobs shut.

Because this WILL be coming for other clubs.

And the first club that doesn't get the same punishment as whatever we end up getting, the EFL WILL get sued by Blues.
12:21, Tue 12 Feb
Roland_Weary
Do you know which firm is representing us?

Believe I've mentioned it before, Mishcon de Reya.

They're good, as I know from personal experience.
12:24, Tue 12 Feb
I listened to the Tilton talk show last night and Davo was on there with Claire Boden

They were talking about all the good stuff happening at the club at the moment with the community

Claire was full of praise for the board and sounds as if they are more in contact day to day than we think.
Jim
12:28, Tue 12 Feb
If Pedersen was signed after an explicit banning order was put in place, the only fair and proper punishment would have been not to allow his registration to play League football for Blues.

He could have been sold on, or released from his contract at that stage without damage to his personal reputation or career.

As for the notion of increasing the penalty demand from 9 points to 12 points simply because someone at Blues upset Uncle Shaun and his cronies at some point this winter (did Ren forget to give them their customary Christmas tip, perhaps?), this would be outrageously unprofessional and totally beyond the bounds of any kind of natural justice.

If nothing else comes out of all this fiasco, surely the clubs that make up the Football League will take a serious look at the people they are paying (handsomely) to make such a dog's breakfast of everything.