11:45, Tue 9 Apr
Rags

Yep ... it goes back a long way too ... all the way back until he was in his teens and i was running a charity event for mentally handicapped kids and Brian Little and (i think) Ray Graydon and Phil Summerill and Bob Latchford were happy to come along. Francis wanted "appearance money" (as it was called then) and intimated that without it he wouldn't come along. The Charity was linked with Doug Ellis so Doug phoned Blues and got it sorted - but when he turned up he was surly and rude to the kids.


Same surly "i'm so important me" "don't you know who i am" attitude that you all saw when he flounced the players off the pitch at Preston before te penalty shoot-out and cost us the game.

For Christ's sake ... he even went to see Jim Smith on Smith's FIRST DAY as manager to tell him he wanted to leave and wasn't really bothered anymore and Smith had to talk him into performing at his best with a promise that he could leave within 6 months



He's a bad 'un.

I tell you what WON'T be in any book of his (and unfortunately due to their agreement won't be any book by Sullivan Gold or Brady) is the reason that Blues were able to get rid of him so quickly as a manager with no pay-off !! (same reason why he didn't give a press conference)

I met him once at Elmdon, I went to watch training. I got a few autographs from players. I asked Trevor to sign my programme as he headed to the changing rooms. He looked at me and snarled and went to walk passed. One of the players who was with him, (can't remember who it was now), made him sign. He did so VERY reluctantly. So sort of backs up Rags point.

Your last statement though, I thought he was sacked because he wasn't a very good manager!
11:51, Tue 9 Apr
i heard a very similar story to that rags back in the day from somebody i know very well and was involved in the running of the social club in question.

tf was asked to come and do some kids presentations at the social club which is within a mile of st andrews. his first question was about his fee.

the social club rang villa up instead and dennis mortimer came across and did it for nothing and as well as that bought a load of villa stuff with him to hand out to the kids
"supporters should be patient a little while longer - sunshine days are just around the corner."
Ken Wheldon - March 18th 1988
11:54, Tue 9 Apr
Look what the feck he did to Jerry Gill !!![/quote]

what happened with gill? was it it being dropped for the cup final or was there something else??
"supporters should be patient a little while longer - sunshine days are just around the corner."
Ken Wheldon - March 18th 1988
11:58, Tue 9 Apr
Went on to the pitch to get his autograph after a game, all I had on me was my metalwork homework (eff knows why) and he signed it, and probably dozens of others happily enough. He would only have been a kid himself at the time, 16 or 17, maybe 18, summat like that.

At least he didn’t refer Rags to his mothereffing agent
12:34, Tue 9 Apr
I know people that knew him pretty well. Socially awkward, pious, up his own arris, aloof, out for himself he’s all of those things and Rags story doesn’t surprise me. He’s also the best player I’ve ever seen play for us, arguably the best teenager this country has ever produced, kept us in the top division almost single handedly at times. Always stuck it on the villa, you could hear them quaking every time he got on the ball, scored a sublime hat-trick for QPR at vile pork at the age of 36 to ram the boos down their throats, he was quick, two footed, could head a ball, fantastic crosser, 50 odd England caps....he was all Of that.Took us to the playoffs a few times and a major cup final as a second tier team. An attractive team that scored plenty of goals that I enjoyed watching. I thought as a manager he did ok for us. For people of DES’S age and older like to my uncles he WAS Birmingham city. So I suppose it depends on how you know him but If I had the same experience as Rags I would feel exactly the same as him.
the ferret
Look what the feck he did to Jerry Gill !!!

what happened with gill? was it it being dropped for the cup final or was there something else??[/quote]

TF kept Jerry Gill's losers league cup medal in his office draw until he left/got sacked. fanny of a thing to do!
13:04, Tue 9 Apr
Look what the feck he did to Jerry Gill !!!

what happened with gill? was it it being dropped for the cup final or was there something else??[/quote]

After appearing in every round and being MOTM in the semi-final ... yes he dropped him - didn't even make the bench - but it was the way he dropped him. Gill travelled down expecting to be in the team, did loads of pre-match interviews etc, had breakfast with the rest of the team on the day itself, players walked towards the coach, all the Press watching, Francis pulls him to one side and tells him he's not playing ... in front of all the Press !!

Completely humiliated him.

Someone else can tell the Devlin story about TFs scoring record - and why Devlin hates him

Obviously the Martin Allen story is also well known ... ""I'll never forget the following Monday. I was just leaving for home after training when Trevor Francis handed me an envelope while I was getting in my car. I thought it was going to be a note of congratulations for having the baby but it was a two week wages fine. It was quite shocking and disappointing. After that, my working relationship with Trevor broke down. I was eventually sold to West Ham a few months later."
13:22, Tue 9 Apr
Forgive me if I've misremembered, but wasn't there something about youth team players washing his car too?
13:27, Tue 9 Apr
I ran on the pitch in 1971 to kiss his feet after he scored from fully forty yards against Blackpool . Next time our paths crossed he didn't even recognize me !.... mind you , it was thirty years later
Southside Blue , not only keeping the blues alive but also singlehandedly saving the British Manufacturing Industry .
13:29, Tue 9 Apr
Youth players had to run errands for him, wash his car, fetch his shopping, do photocopying, that sort of thing.
Luckily, the amount of heroin I use is harmless. I inject about once a month on a purely recreational basis. Fine. But what about other people less stable, less educated, less middle-class than me? Builders or blacks for example. If you're one of those, my advice to you is leave well alone. Good luck.
the ferret
Look what the feck he did to Jerry Gill !!!

what happened with gill? was it it being dropped for the cup final or was there something else??

TF kept Jerry Gill's losers league cup medal in his office draw until he left/got sacked. fanny of a thing to do![/quote]

Playing Franck Queudrue with the kids at Bromsgrove Rovers was another moment aswell.
13:38, Tue 9 Apr
Yes great, great player but seems not the nicest bloke in the world.
13:41, Tue 9 Apr
B13blues
Yes great, great player but seems not the nicest bloke in the world.
. He's from Cornwall . You can hardly expect him to be socially adequate. It's almost as bad as being Welsh .... or French .......
Southside Blue , not only keeping the blues alive but also singlehandedly saving the British Manufacturing Industry .
DES
13:47, Tue 9 Apr
bluemike
God rags, you have disillusioned me now.

My all time favourite hero, who i had the pleasure of watching at his peak.

Feel like cutting my wrists now.
Mike, never let one person's opinion change your mind,Rags obvious;ly has issues with him, and from the few times I met him he was socially awkward, but what a player! just the best ever in a blues shirt!

KRO
DES
13:48, Tue 9 Apr
Southside Blue
B13blues
Yes great, great player but seems not the nicest bloke in the world.
. He's from Cornwall . You can hardly expect him to be socially adequate. It's almost as bad as being Welsh .... or French .......
Plymouth is Devon isnt it Ray?

KRO
13:52, Tue 9 Apr
DES
No doesn't change what a great player he was, for everyone not just at Blues. He'd probably look even better on todays playing surfaces as well.
13:58, Tue 9 Apr
DES
DES
Southside Blue
B13blues
Yes great, great player but seems not the nicest bloke in the world.
. He's from Cornwall . You can hardly expect him to be socially adequate. It's almost as bad as being Welsh .... or French .......
Plymouth is Devon isnt it Ray?

KRO
. I know ! But it's as near as damn it ...
Southside Blue , not only keeping the blues alive but also singlehandedly saving the British Manufacturing Industry .
Used to be tradition, didn't it? Apprentices had to pick up the rubbish from the terraces.

Thought Gill wasn't entitled to a medal because he wasn't on the bench. Would have been had Jon McCarthy not passed a fitness test.
14:22, Tue 9 Apr
DES
DES
bluemike
God rags, you have disillusioned me now.

My all time favourite hero, who i had the pleasure of watching at his peak.

Feel like cutting my wrists now.
Mike, never let one person's opinion change your mind,Rags obvious;ly has issues with him, and from the few times I met him he was socially awkward, but what a player! just the best ever in a blues shirt!

KRO

The best Blues player ever, don't think i will see the like's again in my life time.
Very well put.

Losing 3 play off semi's and LC Final, plus the finals with Sheffield Wednesday.

His tears with AJ show that despite the negative encounters, there is someone who gives a toss.

Whatever your thoughts/encounters, he is our greatest ever player.