To be fair to Arsenal, as soon as they got into the League, they were proposing to expand it by four clubs. And Millwall was practically begged to apply after monstering the first Southern Legue but they didn't do so. Could be because it was financially more lucrative, they'd pinched Jasper Geddes from the Baggies in 1894, which caused ructions (no mutual transfer fee arrangement), and cheaper (lower guarantees for visiting clubs). The League was still seen as a northern competition until about Chelsea's admission.
bluearmyfactionTo be fair to Arsenal, as soon as they got into the League, they were proposing to expand it by four clubs. And Millwall was practically begged to apply after monstering the first Southern Legue but they didn't do so. Could be because it was financially more lucrative, they'd pinched Jasper Geddes from the Baggies in 1894, which caused ructions (no mutual transfer fee arrangement), and cheaper (lower guarantees for visiting clubs). The League was still seen as a northern competition until about Chelsea's admission.
Oh yes, I think Millwall’s shortsightedness was the main problem. But I think they resented Arsenal for going behind their backs, as Arsenal were key to making the Southern League a commercial success for Millwall. It was London’s first proper rivalry and the games attracted big crowds.
Even when Arsenal jumped ship, minutes from that era (from James Murray’s brilliant and beautiful book, The Lions of the South) show that the Millwall board felt playing local games was the way to go, and that having to travel hundreds of miles & host the likes of Darwen wouldn’t generate the same excitement & therefore crowds.
If Millwall had of joined the FL in the 1890s, as they were asked to do, they would probably have established themselves as one of London’s top clubs. And the likes of Chelsea and Charlton Athletic, both founded in 1905, would have likely found it hard to gain much traction, with both bordering catchment areas west and east of Millwall, once the club had moved to New Cross in 1910 (which may have come even earlier on joining FL).
It is certainly a great ‘what ifs?’ for English football. Millwall v Arsenal could have evolved into a big north London v south London rivalry for bragging rights over trophies etc.
Alas, we had to wait until 1920 to join the FL & until 1988 to finally reach the First Division & play Arsenal in a league match again!
I’ve enjoyed this bit of history on our board. It’s always seemed odd to me that London is dominated by north London clubs (including West Ham which I’ve always thought of a better supported east end club which seems to be completely wrong as you firmly put Millwall down as South London). Charlton were a big club in their day and I suppose we have to take Crystal Palace seriously if we must. There’s certainly plenty of people who live south of the river…
No offence meant by this but I don’t actually like seeing so many London clubs doing well, so it would be nice if Millwall continue in their middling provocative way as far as I’m concerned.
It would have been too big a risk for a conservative board, I presume. Second division in the 1890s (no maximum wage) was a financial hellhole. We would have gone under in 1894 had we not gone up - promotion doubled our crowds and income. The likes of Bootle and Ironopolis did go under, and Walsall and Lincoln repeatedly dropped out.
But…had Millwall gone in and gone up quickly…then yes, everything would have been up for grabs. I doubt there would have been a Crystal Palace for starters…
Ricky BlottoCracking write up on us. See most recent posts: [millwallonline.com]
Concludes with:
"Also on a personal note, I actually like Birmingham City, despite all our run-ins over the years. They carry the city’s name and I think to follow them, instead of the historically more successful Aston Villa, shows the sort of local pride us Millwall fans can identify with."
💙
"If you find yourself in a position where Millwall and West Brom are your mates, you have to question your life choices. FEA"
- Martin Luther King, 1961, Bordesley
Very interesting post, thanks
I'll be honest I've never been not too fond of Millwall, always struck me as an angry version of Reading.
Though I have always liked that symbol your fans do, with the two arms crossing in an X, both hands in a fist, really cool.
KRO
newblueI’ve enjoyed this bit of history on our board. It’s always seemed odd to me that London is dominated by north London clubs (including West Ham which I’ve always thought of a better supported east end club which seems to be completely wrong as you firmly put Millwall down as South London). Charlton were a big club in their day and I suppose we have to take Crystal Palace seriously if we must. There’s certainly plenty of people who live south of the river…
No offence meant by this but I don’t actually like seeing so many London clubs doing well, so it would be nice if Millwall continue in their middling provocative way as far as I’m concerned.
Millwall are the only professional club to have ever played in the East End, and are still the closest club to the Bow Bells. West Ham United are & have always been an East London club. I am sure you get East End West Ham fans, but places like Stepney still have Millwall families (see Bob Crow, and your old player Darren Purse). And most glory hunters in that part of the world followed Arsenal, who were closer to the East End proper than West Ham.
I would describe Millwall as more a docklands club, over South London. Charlton play in SE London, Palace in deep south London (technically Greater London), Wimbledon in SW London. Whereas Millwall was forged on the Isle of Dogs, at the Millwall Dock, and then just over the river at the heart of the huge Surrey Commercial Docks. Even the new ground sits alongside Surrey Canal Road. This area was and is very different to the likes of Greenwich, Croydon and Merton.
It is a mystery why Millwall didn’t fulfil their potential. Bad luck I guess. Thanks to the docks, Millwall were one of the best supported clubs in the country between the wars, despite playing in Div3 (South) and Div2, and actually got better crowds than Charlton overall, who were able to pull in huge gates for London derbies and cup games thanks to playing at a literal valley, but who couldn’t match Millwall in terms of consistent local support. Even Millwall reserve games got 20,000 plus in the 1920s and 1930s.
On your last point, if Millwall did get promoted, the PL would be 40% London clubs, should West Ham stay up too.
I used to spend a lot of time in the 1970's in Mile End for the 6 weeks school holidays and got taken by my uncle to a few Millwall games at The Den. They were always my favourite team.. after BCFC of course!
Top man Moody, thanks for your summary post
Palace is really the team of Croydon - it's miles away from Bermondsey
It's 4 miles between the Den and The Valley and the Boleyn Ground, but 6 miles to Selhurst.
It's likely Palace would have been there regardless of Millwall success.
When I first worked in London I was sent out to do some accounts work at a printers in Bermondsey. They were all Millwall fans and had some fun chatting about one of the employees who had just got from a short sentence in Brixton for assault. I think they thought they could intimidate me a bit. In which they were quite correct.
They were alright, but I would not have wanted to work in Bermondsey.
My nipper lived in Bermondsey for a bit. He liked the Millwall fans.he came across in the pubs, especially on match days. He found them to be rowdy uncouth bunch of jokers
Palace was another team to fill a ground - a successful top-flight Millwall might have been a better proposition as a tenant...OK, it would have required a move, but Arsenal were doing that in the opposite direction (to the eternal chagrin of Spurs).
Fat Buddha OBEMy nipper lived in Bermondsey for a bit. He liked the Millwall fans.he came across in the pubs, especially on match days. He found them to be rowdy uncouth bunch of jokers
Not enough to stay living there though😁.
Don’t know Bermondsey really but have had friends who live around Bow/Tower Hamlets for decades - those places have changed a lot. Stoke Newington used to be pretty rough, now it’s wall-to-wall Sourdough and Kefir.