SHA Small Heath Alliance

Bottom line: it's stolen. It exists because it's scraped - without recompense - the work of actual human beings. I'm at the coal face of this, and it's pretty soul destroying.

El Mayor

As someone who is a writer and who has made a living as a creative, the idea of a company scraping huge amounts of data created by people like me to make these large language models is just plain wrong.

Electronic artists have to credit anyone they sample and pay royalties - these people are just stealing stuff lock stock and barrel.

I can emphasise to a certain degree there.

But the moment you sell your craft to a third party, you stop owning it normally.

Everything I create and invent at work is the intellectual property of my employer. I don't have a say in the use and profits made from it.

Rasputin

El Mayor

As someone who is a writer and who has made a living as a creative, the idea of a company scraping huge amounts of data created by people like me to make these large language models is just plain wrong.

Electronic artists have to credit anyone they sample and pay royalties - these people are just stealing stuff lock stock and barrel.

I can emphasise to a certain degree there.

But the moment you sell your craft to a third party, you stop owning it normally.

Everything I create and invent at work is the intellectual property of my employer. I don't have a say in the use and profits made from it.

I think there is a *tiny* bit of a difference creating something as an employee and creating something as a creator working for oneself.

Rasputin

Blue Turnip

Art is what makes humans human. It should be illegal for AI to produce music.

What is/isn't art has been defined by the person paying for it for the vast majority of human history. It's only really in the last 100 years or so that the artist has tried to tell us that the process for creating the art is more important than the end result. (which is what ends up with slop like Emin's unmade bed).

Ultimately if people enjoy computer generated music and get an emotional response to it, what is wrong with that?

Hell, I'm of the generation that grew up listening to electronic music that apparently isn't real music because it wasn't made with 'real' instruments - I know mayor likes a lot of that sort of stuff, so it's interesting to see his visceral response to AI.

Electronic music is still being composed and arranged by a human even if it’s not made with analogue or acoustic instruments.

We are the only creature on this planet that creates art just for pleasure. It doesn’t need to be for money, folk songs and stories have been passed down through generations through word of mouth and not for profit.

I make ambient and soundscape music, one of the top genres that AI nonsense is taking over. I’d hate to be accused of using AI to create it, it would undermine the fun and effort that I’d put into that work.

A philosophical difference I'll admit!

I remember creating a suite of documents to summarise huge amounts of excel data for a project and Network Rail loving it, and then a couple of years later reviewing tender documents for a bit where NR had literally taken my excel file, formulas and all, and just stuck an NR logo on it. The metadata even still had my name in it.

I suspect where we differ is that I don't see any difference between normal work and 'media'.

Rasputin

A philosophical difference I'll admit!

I remember creating a suite of documents to summarise huge amounts of excel data for a project and Network Rail loving it, and then a couple of years later reviewing tender documents for a bit where NR had literally taken my excel file, formulas and all, and just stuck an NR logo on it. The metadata even still had my name in it.

I suspect where we differ is that I don't see any difference between normal work and 'media'.

Believe me, you create something for yourself on your own time with your own resources and you will.

El Mayor

Believe me, you create something for yourself on your own time with your own resources and you will.

I'm not sure I understand. Is this stuff you've done as part of a paid contract, or stuff you've put on freeview internet?

El Mayor

Rasputin

A philosophical difference I'll admit!

I remember creating a suite of documents to summarise huge amounts of excel data for a project and Network Rail loving it, and then a couple of years later reviewing tender documents for a bit where NR had literally taken my excel file, formulas and all, and just stuck an NR logo on it. The metadata even still had my name in it.

I suspect where we differ is that I don't see any difference between normal work and 'media'.

Believe me, you create something for yourself on your own time with your own resources and you will.

Absolutely seconded. I'm having to cut back a fair bit of what I've been doing as an independent, as my output is being scraped by multionational companies, and unless I can afford to fight them in court (I can't), I get a big fat zero. I can write something original, put it on the internet, and Google will have an AI summary of it within 24 hours, so I get nothing for my work.

Until there's proper licensing in place for AI work - and that's before we even get to the environmental side, and why the price of computers/consoles etc is going up - it's an absolute poison.

Personal opinion :)

Rasputin

A philosophical difference I'll admit!

I remember creating a suite of documents to summarise huge amounts of excel data for a project and Network Rail loving it, and then a couple of years later reviewing tender documents for a bit where NR had literally taken my excel file, formulas and all, and just stuck an NR logo on it. The metadata even still had my name in it.

I suspect where we differ is that I don't see any difference between normal work and 'media'.

You were contracted to create this on behalf of Network Rail and paid for it - that's what being employed is. You were creating IP for Network Rail.

The equivalent in the case of AI scraping IP in order to generate it would be Microsoft scraping your spreadsheets and using them to automate your work for a profit, while not ever admitting that they'd copied your work, let alone crediting your original creative input.

The way that AI generates 'art' in the case of music, writing, images, etc. is based on the outright theft of real human creative work. The AI itself can't behave creatively - it's an ontological difference, more than just philosophical.

Rasputin

El Mayor

Believe me, you create something for yourself on your own time with your own resources and you will.

I'm not sure I understand. Is this stuff you've done as part of a paid contract, or stuff you've put on freeview internet?

I wrote a fricking book mate.

Are you telling me that while a person copying that would be done under copyright laws, an AI scraping it and using it is absolutely fine?

El Mayor

Rasputin

El Mayor

Believe me, you create something for yourself on your own time with your own resources and you will.

I'm not sure I understand. Is this stuff you've done as part of a paid contract, or stuff you've put on freeview internet?

I wrote a fricking book mate.

Are you telling me that while a person copying that would be done under copyright laws, an AI scraping it and using it is absolutely fine?

Mayor is right. People don't give a shit about where AI gets its info from - that is the trouble. So that crappy video posted above is just a huge rip off that takes loads of energy to create and is benefitting the AI firm, which is getting something for nothing. I advise people not to watch it out of principle.

It won't be long until papers like the Birmingham Mail start replacing Brain Dick for AI to write their news stories and then they will use applications like ChatGPT that will read forums like this, use your past work and Ryan Deeney's blog to create articles.

People on here moan about the the state of the Birmingham Mail, but at least there's people who care about the club still trying to report on it.

Soon it will be a bit with no connection, stealing everyone else's words. And do you think they will lower the price of their subscription with the money the saved making journalists redundant?

It's influence in Football is only going to increase. Decisions will be more and more influenced by AI until human interaction is at a bare minimum.

I give it 5 years until clubs have AI watching games and making informed decisions that it passes onto a manager.

There's obviously a reason why KH are investing so much into it. Become the first people to prove a successful model and then you can sell it to all the other clubs.

Maybe that's progress, but I think that just sucks the joy out of the game.

But based on how it's gone this season, it won't be happening anytime soon.

Scary future isn’t it. The Computer technologyindustry is undereducated as it is and is only going to get worse in the medium term.

What is real and not real is only going to blur. The best bet is people get bored of it all and walk away.

Technology is advancing quicker and quicker all the time.

My Mrs used to teach Motor Vehicle Mechanics at Bournville College. She said the courses they were teaching wasn't preparing student enough for modern cars and that soon, you would need a computer science degree, rather than motor vehicle mechanics.

I worked in the computer field for almost 40 years but packed it in in 2009 had enough and didn’t like the direction of travel.

We are in danger of over reliance. We are entering the territory of not being sure what our eyes see is real.

I meant to say under regulated in my previous post. The combination of politicians not understanding the issues combined with being in the pockets of big business does not fill me with hope in the short term.

In support of your wife’s point my last car had three recalls for software updates. I don’t think you need a computer degree as such to be a mechanic but more and more it’s about setting options and loading software.