SHA Small Heath Alliance

Hindsight

Icm2023 17:11, Wed 8 Apr

Snoop   0
Replying to Charcy   18:42, Wed 8 Apr
Charcy
B47blues
Gavlaaa40
Icm2023
Would it have been better to keep the squad mostly together with big characters such as Bielik and May whilst adding some extra quality, then pushed on the following year. It certainly would have dampened expectations and also maybe gave Davies abit more grace with the performances and position in the table.

I know it wouldn’t be what the fans wanted especially given Wagners messaging but that’s why the professionals make the decisions. Did we underestimate the league?

I was in the camp of get rid of everyone not good enough for the league such as May and replace them with better quality by the way but again that’s as a fan just wanting more.

Or is it as simple as a better manager would have gave us a better season and it’s all on him.

Impossible to say if we would have been better as a team but i can guarantee May would have scored more than Kyogo.

In all seriousness the ones we did keep on from L1 didn't do enough with a couple of obvious exceptions, and we moved the bulk on in January, so i think that answers the question.

The same Alfie May who’s never played higher than the third division?

The same Alfie May who went on a 16 game barren spell in a team that got 111 points?

The same Alfie May who has scored 5 goals all season in the league for Huddersfield?

1 of which was a penalty, I would say letting him go has been entirely vindicated of most things.

His stats coming off the bench for us last season were terrible and there is nothing to say that would improve at a level above where he had ever played as he approaches his mid 30s.

Kyogo has been a disaster but nobody can 'guarantee' May would have scored more and certainly not noticably more that would mean he was worth keeping.

May - 37 games, 5 goals.
Kyogo - 29 games, 3 goals.

Not a lot in it given Kyogo is a division above and had a good goal ruled out against Ipswich. Though keeping May would have been cheaper... but also not very ambitious to not at least try and improve on him, given he wasn't likely to be good enough.
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NorthamptonBlue   0
Replying to Snoop   19:08, Wed 8 Apr
Hindsight is we thought we were a bit better than we were. We thought our manager may adapt better than he did.
We bought a couple of decent players in Jan. We need to buy 6 more in the summer to have a chance of the expanded playoffs.
It’s a hard league
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Bluetone   1
Replying to Icm2023   21:43, Wed 8 Apr
I think the squad who was the best team ever in L1 would have been fairly comfortable on this league. If we were only financially able to replace the expired loans and Juke retiring they would be a safe bet for midtable.

However, we aimed for higher than that and we know now that it's a big opportunity missed with the way other teams have performed this season

If only Kyogo and BOS hit the ground running and maybe Ducksch was ready from the start we would be better off but probably masking the fact that nearly every summer signing has been a failure or their style is at odds with how the manager wants us to play.

Someone will have to answer for that, whether it's CD or CG or both.
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Beduff Blue   1
Replying to Bluetone   09:23, Thu 9 Apr
I am not sure it's recruitment. Wagner came in and looked great, solis too. Panzo first off looked capable August looks a player. Kumas has done well since leaving, Leonard and Doyle will probably be going to the World Cup. We are making players worse. It is a sign of lack of confidence in the coaching and a lack of belief in the method of play.
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Snoop   0
Replying to Beduff Blue   10:05, Thu 9 Apr
Beduff Blue
I am not sure it's recruitment. Wagner came in and looked great, solis too. Panzo first off looked capable August looks a player. Kumas has done well since leaving, Leonard and Doyle will probably be going to the World Cup. We are making players worse. It is a sign of lack of confidence in the coaching and a lack of belief in the method of play.

But we signed Wagner, Solis and Priske 6 months too late - we didn't have players like Solis and Priske in the squad and they are the type of players we needed all season. And we only had one fit LB... and by the time we signed Wagner, we'd run him into the ground so Wagner became our only fit LB.

The upgrade from Koumas to Osman is obvious every time Osman plays

Panzo pretty much had one good game, given his record, perhaps at 25 it is just who he is?

Who is Doyle going to the WC with? I don't think either he nor Leonard have played an international game, so both seem longshots, Doyle particularly so as his affiliation has been to England... and there is no chance he is getting in that squad.
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Gavlaaa40   0
Replying to B47blues   10:55, Thu 9 Apr
B47blues
Gavlaaa40
Icm2023
Would it have been better to keep the squad mostly together with big characters such as Bielik and May whilst adding some extra quality, then pushed on the following year. It certainly would have dampened expectations and also maybe gave Davies abit more grace with the performances and position in the table.

I know it wouldn’t be what the fans wanted especially given Wagners messaging but that’s why the professionals make the decisions. Did we underestimate the league?

I was in the camp of get rid of everyone not good enough for the league such as May and replace them with better quality by the way but again that’s as a fan just wanting more.

Or is it as simple as a better manager would have gave us a better season and it’s all on him.

Impossible to say if we would have been better as a team but i can guarantee May would have scored more than Kyogo.

In all seriousness the ones we did keep on from L1 didn't do enough with a couple of obvious exceptions, and we moved the bulk on in January, so i think that answers the question.

The same Alfie May who’s never played higher than the third division?

The same Alfie May who went on a 16 game barren spell in a team that got 111 points?

The same Alfie May who has scored 5 goals all season in the league for Huddersfield?

Yep that same Alfie May.
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B47blues   -1
Replying to Beduff Blue   10:59, Thu 9 Apr
Beduff Blue
I am not sure it's recruitment. Wagner came in and looked great, solis too. Panzo first off looked capable August looks a player. Kumas has done well since leaving, Leonard and Doyle will probably be going to the World Cup. We are making players worse. It is a sign of lack of confidence in the coaching and a lack of belief in the method of play.

Doyle going to the World Cup? To do what, sell hot dogs?
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WithamBlue   1
Replying to Beduff Blue   11:29, Thu 9 Apr
Since the start of December we have scored 22 goals and conceded 33 in 23 games accumulating 25 points from a possible 69. Only 2 points more than Oxford and Leicester.

I think if we hadn't invested as much as we have done we'd be involved in the relegation scrap at best.
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shaun_3   0
Replying to WithamBlue   11:39, Thu 9 Apr
WithamBlue
I think if we hadn't invested as much as we have done we'd be involved in the relegation scrap at best.

That logic is completely backwards as it acts like new players replacing old players are always better, which is untrue. Kyogo has been a disaster. 1 goal and just 1,000 minutes played for so far (~£4M plus wages?) with very little chance of recouping much in the selling market because of age and form. Alfie May would have probably saved our finances £5M at least (lower wages) and at least given us that output. That £5M could have been a goalkeeper, a LB, or a more reliable goalscorer. There are other players too that have not been worth their investment so far. I don't think this is hindsight. There were some risky investments and risky decisions. All the leaders in the squad from the league one seasom are gone. That is not great.
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bluer than blues   1
Replying to Icm2023   11:46, Thu 9 Apr
I think we'd be doing better, albeit marginally, had we kept the squad and signed virtually no one. We've done too much too quickly and without enough consideration. That being said, Wrexham rip it up every year and completely rebuild, and they get it right.

I also think we would have come up against a lot of the same issues, which revolve around the brand of football we play not being suited to the physicality and athleticism required for the Championship.
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WithamBlue   1
Replying to shaun_3   11:53, Thu 9 Apr
Ok, what about if you compare Ducksch to May, Thor or Dowell? Solis to Leonard or TGH? Roberts or Vicente to Wright? Osman or Gray to Hansson or Harris? Neumann to Davies?

The squad has seen huge improvements, this is why Davies is under so much pressure because he has underperformed with what he has, if we didn't make these upgrades and Davies is still the manager at this point in the season we'd be in a relegation scrap
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Snoop   0
Replying to shaun_3   11:59, Thu 9 Apr
shaun_3
WithamBlue
I think if we hadn't invested as much as we have done we'd be involved in the relegation scrap at best.

That logic is completely backwards as it acts like new players replacing old players are always better, which is untrue. Kyogo has been a disaster. 1 goal and just 1,000 minutes played for so far (~£4M plus wages?) with very little chance of recouping much in the selling market because of age and form. Alfie May would have probably saved our finances £5M at least (lower wages) and at least given us that output. That £5M could have been a goalkeeper, a LB, or a more reliable goalscorer. There are other players too that have not been worth their investment so far. I don't think this is hindsight. There were some risky investments and risky decisions. All the leaders in the squad from the league one seasom are gone. That is not great.

I would assume the club thought they were using the Kyogo money to buy amore reliable goalscorer - it is exactly hindsight to see how he has turned out and argue we should have got a more reliable goal scorer..
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NorthamptonBlue   0
Replying to WithamBlue   12:02, Thu 9 Apr
WithamBlue
Ok, what about if you compare Ducksch to May, Thor or Dowell? Solis to Leonard or TGH? Roberts or Vicente to Wright? Osman or Gray to Hansson or Harris? Neumann to Davies?

The squad has seen huge improvements, this is why Davies is under so much pressure because he has underperformed with what he has, if we didn't make these upgrades and Davies is still the manager at this point in the season we'd be in a relegation scrap

Not a lot wrong with our squad - unfortunate left back injuries unbalance the team - but still underperforming in a tough league
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shaun_3   1
Replying to Snoop   12:04, Thu 9 Apr
Snoop
[I would assume the club thought they were using the Kyogo money to buy amore reliable goalscorer - it is exactly hindsight to see how he has turned out and argue we should have got a more reliable goal scorer..

It is not hindsight. Simple.

Kyogo was a risk. He tailed off at Celtic due to a known and documented shoulder injury, that both Celtic and his next club Rennes both put off from fixing due to a long recovery period. He had a terrible year at Rennes. He had no Championship experience. He was 30 years old and we signed him on until he was 33, so no resale value.

We hoped he could rediscover his early Celtic form. He didn't. It was a risk.
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