Yeah we have this argument every time this happens, the ball is spherical not square, looks in to me
Rab C Nesbittbluer than bluesOn field officials now don’t need to make decisions. VAR encourages thatYep, the Guimares was terrible.
I think VAR has made the on field refs worse, too.
Sorry mate but that's blatantly untrue - the whole reason that shit show happened last night was because VAR couldn't find a reason (clear and obvious error) to overrule the ref or ask him to view the screen.
There is some incredibly subjective posts and an awful lot of confirmation bias going on in this thread - it's why I've stayed out of it.
It was the perfect storm - 3 really tough incidents in the space of a few seconds and one goal. FWIW I did think it was a foul - the only thing I was sure of after countless replays. 2 hands in the back will always be a foul to me whether there is force applied or not, but I'm not a ref and he thought it wasn't a foul and VAR didn't think it was clear enough to overrule. The ball in or out and the offside still were unclear to me.
That's my tuppence worth and my last comment 'n all! 😁
Edit - as for that utter arse biscuit Arteta - of course he was upset, he's a moaning fanny and I'm really glad all this happened to him and his darlings 👍
Linesmen in particular are encouraged to not make decisions now, so it’s not untrue. That’s a fact. Ref’s also don’t need to on instinct. The facet var can see no reason to tell the ref to review that goal with a player pushing the defender downwards so he can’t challenge is just daft as well. It is a farce. Weekly
bluer than bluesThe lack of transparency in VAR is incredibly troubling. We were given a snapshot of what goes on behind the scenes in the Spurs Liverpool game with the released audio and that was absolute carnage. The VAR staff didn't even seem to be watching what was happening on the pitch. Absolute incompetence.
I can only conclude that the lack of transparency is purposely used to cover the chaos behind the scenes.
Why do we not have a system where every image stockley park see is live streamed at home and (where applicable) in stadiums and the audio is live streamed also? Take the Newcastle goal, the discussion over each of those decisions should be broadcast live and the justifications for giving/not giving them heard.
And then the Wolves pen... Lol. Poor Gary O'Neil. Screwed last weekend and this one and yet Onana took his player's head off but no pen. The refs don't know what they're doing anymore. I honestly believe it's made the on field refs worse.
The IFAB have said in the last they won't allow VAR audio for exactly that reason - the chaotic way in which it comes across with 3 or 4 people all talking over each other.
The whole VAR thing is a farce. I absolutely hate what it's doing to the game. It's become front and centre and we're all falling into the trap in this thread !
bluer than bluesThe lack of transparency in VAR is incredibly troubling. We were given a snapshot of what goes on behind the scenes in the Spurs Liverpool game with the released audio and that was absolute carnage. The VAR staff didn't even seem to be watching what was happening on the pitch. Absolute incompetence.
I can only conclude that the lack of transparency is purposely used to cover the chaos behind the scenes.
Why do we not have a system where every image stockley park see is live streamed at home and (where applicable) in stadiums and the audio is live streamed also? Take the Newcastle goal, the discussion over each of those decisions should be broadcast live and the justifications for giving/not giving them heard.
And then the Wolves pen... Lol. Poor Gary O'Neil. Screwed last weekend and this one and yet Onana took his player's head off but no pen. The refs don't know what they're doing anymore. I honestly believe it's made the on field refs worse.
Just watching the Wolves one on MOTD.100% Danny Murphy and Martin Keown say that's a pen if he doesn't give it as there was contact
On the Newcastle goal, Sky pundits were saying it wasn't a foul, BBC pundits saying it was. Ref can't really win
Le ModYeah we have this argument every time this happens, the ball is spherical not square, looks in to me
This is quite illuminating
[twitter.com]
Rab C NesbittLinesmen in particular are encouraged to not make decisions now, so it’s not untrue. That’s a fact. Ref’s also don’t need to on instinct. The facet var can see no reason to tell the ref to review that goal with a player pushing the defender downwards so he can’t challenge is just daft as well. It is a farce. Weekly
That's not what you said Rab is it. 'Refs don't need to make decisions' is the sort of thing people are coming out with in these arguments which don't really help. You and a lot others don't want it - that's fair enough, but there is a bit of hyperbole creeping in at times, I feel.
Bluesince62Rab C Nesbittbluer than bluesOn field officials now don’t need to make decisions. VAR encourages thatYep, the Guimares was terrible.
I think VAR has made the on field refs worse, too.
Sorry mate but that's blatantly untrue - the whole reason that shit show happened last night was because VAR couldn't find a reason (clear and obvious error) to overrule the ref or ask him to view the screen.
There is some incredibly subjective posts and an awful lot of confirmation bias going on in this thread - it's why I've stayed out of it.
It was the perfect storm - 3 really tough incidents in the space of a few seconds and one goal. FWIW I did think it was a foul - the only thing I was sure of after countless replays. 2 hands in the back will always be a foul to me whether there is force applied or not, but I'm not a ref and he thought it wasn't a foul and VAR didn't think it was clear enough to overrule. The ball in or out and the offside still were unclear to me.
That's my tuppence worth and my last comment 'n all! 😁
Edit - as for that utter arse biscuit Arteta - of course he was upset, he's a moaning fanny and I'm really glad all this happened to him and his darlings 👍
Love this 👍 especially the Arteta bit.
(Fwiw I'm 95% sure that 2 hands on the back is ok providing there's no force / shove)
Don't know why they can't remove a goal if its deemed the wrong decision after a match, they do it with red cards or another way and I know it will never happen but if the team involved as lost say 2-1 to a controversial decision then let the original result stand but award a point to the team who has lost because of the decision but only if its proven that the original VAR was incorrect
the Kevin Langley fan clubBluesince62Rab C Nesbittbluer than bluesOn field officials now don’t need to make decisions. VAR encourages thatYep, the Guimares was terrible.
I think VAR has made the on field refs worse, too.
Sorry mate but that's blatantly untrue - the whole reason that shit show happened last night was because VAR couldn't find a reason (clear and obvious error) to overrule the ref or ask him to view the screen.
There is some incredibly subjective posts and an awful lot of confirmation bias going on in this thread - it's why I've stayed out of it.
It was the perfect storm - 3 really tough incidents in the space of a few seconds and one goal. FWIW I did think it was a foul - the only thing I was sure of after countless replays. 2 hands in the back will always be a foul to me whether there is force applied or not, but I'm not a ref and he thought it wasn't a foul and VAR didn't think it was clear enough to overrule. The ball in or out and the offside still were unclear to me.
That's my tuppence worth and my last comment 'n all! 😁
Edit - as for that utter arse biscuit Arteta - of course he was upset, he's a moaning fanny and I'm really glad all this happened to him and his darlings 👍
Love this 👍 especially the Arteta bit.
(Fwiw I'm 95% sure that 2 hands on the back is ok providing there's no force / shove)
👍 Yeah as I said I'm not a ref - it looked a foul to me but you could well be right.
the Kevin Langley fan club(Fwiw I'm 95% sure that 2 hands on the back is ok providing there's no force / shove)
Extracts from Rule 12: pushing is ok unless it is "careless, reckless or using excessive force".
"..against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:"
"Pushes"
However there are none of these tests in respect of these two which are (direct free kick) fouls regardless.
"holds an opponent"
"impedes an opponent with contact"
Think this has been done to death now but the issue is using subjective information and trying to get the same objective conclusion each time.
If you have objective inputs (2+2 =) then you get the same objective output every time (4).
If you have subjective inputs (could be 2 or 3 + 2 or 3 =) then the output is variable (4,5 or 6) so you can get a different answer/decision.
The ‘could be 2 or 3’ are the ball being in/out, the possible foul and the possible offside so on occasions the goal will be given and on occasions it won’t.
Bluesince62You even highlighted my ‘on field officials’ bit .Rab C NesbittLinesmen in particular are encouraged to not make decisions now, so it’s not untrue. That’s a fact. Ref’s also don’t need to on instinct. The facet var can see no reason to tell the ref to review that goal with a player pushing the defender downwards so he can’t challenge is just daft as well. It is a farce. Weekly
That's not what you said Rab is it. 'Refs don't need to make decisions' is the sort of thing people are coming out with in these arguments which don't really help. You and a lot others don't want it - that's fair enough, but there is a bit of hyperbole creeping in at times, I feel.
Of course that includes lino’s in that term. The plural being key 🤷♂️
Bluesince62ThereRab C Nesbittbluer than bluesOn field officials now don’t need to make decisions. VAR encourages thatYep, the Guimares was terrible.
I think VAR has made the on field refs worse, too.
Sorry mate but that's blatantly untrue - the whole reason that shit show happened last night was because VAR couldn't find a reason (clear and obvious error) to overrule the ref or ask him to view the screen.
There is some incredibly subjective posts and an awful lot of confirmation bias going on in this thread - it's why I've stayed out of it.
It was the perfect storm - 3 really tough incidents in the space of a few seconds and one goal. FWIW I did think it was a foul
The goal was good as far as I could see.
The whole of the ball didn't cross the line.
As pointed out earlier the contact was not a foul under the rules.
It looks like the ball came off Gabriel so Gordon not offside.
ymmv