06:43, Fri 19 Nov
IanT
Exactly.

It's not even worth having the conversation with them.

But these are the exact people the conversation is needed with if we want change.
06:45, Fri 19 Nov
That’s a good point. Good luck.
06:48, Fri 19 Nov
Fat Buddha
That’s a good point. Good luck.

😂, I didn’t say I was the person to have the conversation. I tried but people are so engrained in their beliefs, no matter how archaic they are, it’s like hitting your head against a brick wall.
07:02, Fri 19 Nov
Just a thought. Human beings are very sociable and they seek to belong to “tribes.” Whether that is a religion, a community, a village, a club, a nation, a political party or movement, or a football team. It’s deeply ingrained in us, so we tend to gravitate towards people we have things in common with; and be a bit suspicious of people from other tribes.

Like Blues supporters. Is the hatred of some people against the Vile and their supporters a type of cultural hatred similar to racism? Similarly, is calling a supporter of another political movement bad things a type of political/cultural racism? Should these be called out and legislated against?

Just asking.
07:05, Fri 19 Nov
Hatred of Villa or those of differing political views, which I’m guilty of, is neither big, clever, or productive but it is not racism
07:08, Fri 19 Nov
Fat Buddha
Hatred of Villa or those of differing political views, which I’m guilty of, is neither big, clever, or productive but it is not racism

Yep. People choose political allegiances/football teams and are actively vocal about it (for people to call them things is stands to reason they must talk about it). People have no choice about the colour of their skin and may never mention it until someone else does. Not even similar.
07:12, Fri 19 Nov
Radavis
Fat Buddha
Hatred of Villa or those of differing political views, which I’m guilty of, is neither big, clever, or productive but it is not racism

Yep. People choose political allegiances/football teams and are actively vocal about it (for people to call them things is stands to reason they must talk about it). People have no choice about the colour of their skin and may never mention it until someone else does. Not even similar.

Religious adherence is optional too.
There's too much opinion and not enough fact.
07:15, Fri 19 Nov
Came across these tweets by a fella called Femi, who can be quite annoying at times, but these are good, in my opinion, like

[twitter.com]

[twitter.com]
mad
07:20, Fri 19 Nov
Think we got giddy and allowed ourselves to imagine that Azeem might be this saintly force that unifies the conversation but there were always going to be the reactionaries out there even before the mud slinging. People are back in their trenches now with the predictable grenades being lobbed about

His very important role isn't as some saint who would go on to win sports personality, be rewarded by our honours system or become a human rights campaigner or even a local politician in Barnsley - but as a key whistleblower. The individual acts of racism he conducted himself do matter but only on a certain level - a reminder we all need to double and triple check our own thoughts and utterances wherever we are

If there are victims of his racism that emerge as whistlebowers about his actions bullying them with his discrimination then that needs equal treatment but not his personality or private communications - although it strengthens the argument that racism was so rife within that organisation/in society that all in there/here would be subjected to it and potentially react in kind in some way
07:24, Fri 19 Nov
mad
Think we got giddy and allowed ourselves to imagine that Azeem might be this saintly force that unifies the conversation but there were always going to be the reactionaries out there even before the mud slinging. People are back in their trenches now with the predictable grenades being lobbed about

His very important role isn't as some saint who would go on to win sports personality, be rewarded by our honours system or become a human rights campaigner or even a local politician in Barnsley - but as a key whistleblower. The individual acts of racism he conducted himself do matter but only on a certain level - a reminder we all need to double and triple check our own thoughts and utterances wherever we are

If there are victims of his racism that emerge as whistlebowers about his actions bullying them with his discrimination then that needs equal treatment but not his personality or private communications - although it strengthens the argument that racism was so rife within that organisation/in society that all in there/here would be subjected to it and potentially react in kind in some way

👍
07:33, Fri 19 Nov
His second tweet is interesting as people do change.

Maybe including the idiots we’ve all lambasted this week

I hope so anyway
07:34, Fri 19 Nov
Blue are ya?
Micky Darrell
Wyndcliff
Micky Darrell
It seems Rafiq used that trope about Jews money and being mean.

It's not true and it is racist.

I believe he is honestly contrite and Jewish community leaders have accepted that.

Rafiq was never in a position to affect Jews in any way and doesn't really compare to the racism he has suffered.

So my racism is not as bad as your racism (for example)? Racism is racism. Or does it depend on who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

Yes it does. It's vital to understand this if you're serious about fighting racism.

Are you suggesting that there is a pecking order when it comes to racism?
If so would you care to enlighten us all as to who is at the top of this order i.e. who it's "OK" to be racist to and who is at the bottom.

Do you understand that there is a difference between a black person (who belongs to a community that has been discriminated against for a long time) calling me a 'h****' and me (who belongs to the community that has discriminated against his community) the 'n' word?
07:58, Fri 19 Nov
Largely kept out of this as I'm not really much for arguing the toss these days, but for those who seem to be triumphantly trumpeting about Rafiq holding racist views on the Jewish people - try and understand, that is the human condition - no one is perfect and we all do, think and say the wrong things in our lives. All of us.

It's about how we deal with it though and whether or not we have the capacity to go 'hang on, that was wrong of me, I won't be doing or thinking that again'. Also Rafiq doing nothing more than proving he is human and therefore fallible, doesn't change a single thing about how we stop institutional racism in sport and life in general. So stop trumpeting.

That's it, all I got - as you were.
mad
08:04, Fri 19 Nov
My Blue Heaven
His second tweet is interesting as people do change.

Maybe including the idiots we’ve all lambasted this week

I hope so anyway

Azeem himself is engaged in a process of learning from his immediate experiences. He's neither the problem nor the solution. He might reasonably be seen as a conduit towards a better place for all of us - but it's not on him to deliver that or prove he's squeeky clean. Being squeeky clean is not the goal necessarily. It's recognising all of us are flawed and ensuring there are structures in place to help allieviate and break down the systemic racism that's part and parcel of British culture for 150 years or more.

There are people on here and out there in whose short term interests it is for none of the above to happen. I pity these hateful people who want the world to give up because they already have
08:14, Fri 19 Nov
mad
The important thing that has been highlighted isn’t the youthful and not so youthful stupidity of some sportsmen, but the ingrained, institutional racism of Yorkshire CCC.

Some of the named and shamed who continue to be in denial or make lame excuses for themselves would benefit from a bit of critical self reflection though