mad
14:49, Fri 19 Nov
Wyndcliff
And must the outcome always be damnation, cancellation, loss of job, with little short-term hope of forgiveness or redemption?

Absolutely not and that's not what Azeem sought either throughout this. He's recently suggested Moxon and Gale must leave YCCC but that's about the furthest extent he's gone in terms of names and consequences. Others more widely in the game including members at YCCC reached that conclusion long ago and administrators at the ECB are quite rightly feeling the fire too plus some high profile former players/media celebs which again seems appropriate given their profile and the damage them continuing in their role will do to the game.

None of these observers have called for lifetime bans for any of the players. Ollie Robinson received an 8 game ban for his earlier misdemeanors which was all sorted in 3 weeks. Hardly damned to hell. So it has little to do with 'cancel culture' until people with a clear agenda attach that to it
mad
14:59, Fri 19 Nov
the ferret
Hales must be some piece of work to be not in the England ODI team given that he is such a good player.

Reading his apologies he says he spent his twenties letting down family,friends,team mates,partners. Pretty much everyone by the looks of it.

He had issues at Notts. Went on loan to Worcester to play some first class stuff early one season. I saw him get a king pair at Trent Bridge against Warks one season. Not a test opener. But a brilliant white ball player he destroyed Bears at Mansfield one day nice ground on a coalfield.

It could definitely blow up big style there but a lot of that old guard at Notts from 7-10 years ago have already gone as they continually sign other counties players like confetti
15:01, Fri 19 Nov
Radavis
Micky Darrell
Who knows it as 'woke racism'?

That’s a new one for me. Also a complete oxymoron by definition.

It's an American bloke who has a book out under that title.

He argues that antiracism has gone too far and is dominated by the left.

He accepts that discrimination exists but it isn't racism. That children in schools shouldn't be taught about racism – or at least not too much.

As you say, the title gives him away really.
15:10, Fri 19 Nov
mad
It seems that some on here give a different and lower importance to anti Jewish "racism".
Back in the 60s when I was a boy and the city had a thriving Jewish community in Selly Oak and the Bristol Road the pavillion at Edgbaston had a very healthy Jewish presence including my family. Sadly the Jewish population of the city has more than halved however Jews were great cricket fans.
As Leeds has a significant Jewish population I imagine many of them are YCCC members. I hope YCCC will now cancel any compensation to Mr Rafiq especially as it would be paid in part by Jewish members.
15:12, Fri 19 Nov
I mention the fact that he is American because the 'culture war' is more advanced over there.

Some of the very best antiracists are American.
15:25, Fri 19 Nov
Micky Darrell
Radavis
Micky Darrell
Who knows it as 'woke racism'?

That’s a new one for me. Also a complete oxymoron by definition.

It's an American bloke who has a book out under that title.

He argues that antiracism has gone too far and is dominated by the left.

He accepts that discrimination exists but it isn't racism. That children in schools shouldn't be taught about racism – or at least not too much.

As you say, the title gives him away really.

Thanks for that. It was almost exactly what I expected. And it’s amazing how someone who said BLM should stay in America, is now quoting an American author on this sort of thing.
mad
15:40, Fri 19 Nov
Talk about cancel culture.

If Azeem directly abused Jewish spectators or fellow players then fair enough but not for what he thought or said to his mate once or twice or 1000's of times when he was 18. There are millions of people in the UK - jewish, agnostic or whoever who've behaved similarly

As has been said if Yorkshire or their staff had any issue with Azeems argument that he was racially abused they would never have settled. Your argument that it should be paid back is itself antisemitic. Everybody in society is a victim of that act of racism no single group should be beneficiaries or calling for any retribution acts for it

His racism was inexcusable too and he will be accountable for it separately the same way Ollie Robinson was apparently to many, so heinously punished
16:34, Fri 19 Nov
mad
mad
Talk about cancel culture.

If Azeem directly abused Jewish spectators or fellow players then fair enough but not for what he thought or said to his mate once or twice or 1000's of times when he was 18. There are millions of people in the UK - jewish, agnostic or whoever who've behaved similarly

As has been said if Yorkshire or their staff had any issue with Azeems argument that he was racially abused they would never have settled. Your argument that it should be paid back is itself antisemitic. Everybody in society is a victim of that act of racism no single group should be beneficiaries or calling for any retribution acts for it

His racism was inexcusable too and he will be accountable for it separately the same way Ollie Robinson was apparently to many, so heinously punished

So Jewish members of YCCC should compensate an anti Jew? I doubt if YCCC knew of his racism when they agreed the compensation. I am sure, if his contrition is genuine, that he will now return the money. That's all I ask for.
16:38, Fri 19 Nov
Blue are ya?
fradge
Blue are ya?
Micky Darrell
Wyndcliff
Micky Darrell
It seems Rafiq used that trope about Jews money and being mean.

It's not true and it is racist.

I believe he is honestly contrite and Jewish community leaders have accepted that.

Rafiq was never in a position to affect Jews in any way and doesn't really compare to the racism he has suffered.

So my racism is not as bad as your racism (for example)? Racism is racism. Or does it depend on who is the perpetrator and who is the victim?

Yes it does. It's vital to understand this if you're serious about fighting racism.

Are you suggesting that there is a pecking order when it comes to racism?
If so would you care to enlighten us all as to who is at the top of this order i.e. who it's "OK" to be racist to and who is at the bottom.

Do you understand that there is a difference between a black person (who belongs to a community that has been discriminated against for a long time) calling me a 'h****' and me (who belongs to the community that has discriminated against his community) the 'n' word?

In this scenario how does the black person know that you belong to a "community" who has discriminated against his "community". I guess you are white European (in appearance). You could be Jewish (another community that has been discriminated aginst), you could be Irish, who have been used as slaves by North Africans, you could be Polish or from the Baltic states etc etc
Racism is racism.
My belief is there is no excuse for racism, you seem to suggest otherwise

Where do I excuse racism?

I'm merely pointing out that context is important & that white people like me need to be particularly careful - given the history of discrimination in the UK.

Do you agree?
16:43, Fri 19 Nov
You’re being silly. If Rafiq is compensated it will be the institution that is institutionally racist that coughs up, not the individual members. And your logic is specious in the extreme.

It looks a bit racist, actually.
16:58, Fri 19 Nov
The institution is funded by the members fees in part and a good number of those members are Jewish. If Mr Rafiq has any decency he will donate his compensation to promote better relations between Muslims and Jews. Let's see what a damn fine chap he truly is eh.
17:15, Fri 19 Nov
sopwith
mad
Talk about cancel culture.

If Azeem directly abused Jewish spectators or fellow players then fair enough but not for what he thought or said to his mate once or twice or 1000's of times when he was 18. There are millions of people in the UK - jewish, agnostic or whoever who've behaved similarly

As has been said if Yorkshire or their staff had any issue with Azeems argument that he was racially abused they would never have settled. Your argument that it should be paid back is itself antisemitic. Everybody in society is a victim of that act of racism no single group should be beneficiaries or calling for any retribution acts for it

His racism was inexcusable too and he will be accountable for it separately the same way Ollie Robinson was apparently to many, so heinously punished

So Jewish members of YCCC should compensate an anti Jew? I doubt if YCCC knew of his racism when they agreed the compensation. I am sure, if his contrition is genuine, that he will now return the money. That's all I ask for.

I think a couple of comments on social media does when he was 19 does not make him an anti Jew, much like I don’t think Ballance and Hoggard are anti Asian. It’s a bit of an odd take. I would also wonder if you have evidence of how many Jews pay the fees, not that it matters because it’s a totally different situation to the institutionalised racism within YCCC, and if it’s has so many Jews as members would that mean they are in fact part of the problem?

I don’t think that, I’m just trying to follow your logic.
17:24, Fri 19 Nov
This thread is so depressing.

Worth a read:

[www.theguardian.com]
17:25, Fri 19 Nov
Radavis
sopwith
mad
Talk about cancel culture.

If Azeem directly abused Jewish spectators or fellow players then fair enough but not for what he thought or said to his mate once or twice or 1000's of times when he was 18. There are millions of people in the UK - jewish, agnostic or whoever who've behaved similarly

As has been said if Yorkshire or their staff had any issue with Azeems argument that he was racially abused they would never have settled. Your argument that it should be paid back is itself antisemitic. Everybody in society is a victim of that act of racism no single group should be beneficiaries or calling for any retribution acts for it

His racism was inexcusable too and he will be accountable for it separately the same way Ollie Robinson was apparently to many, so heinously punished

So Jewish members of YCCC should compensate an anti Jew? I doubt if YCCC knew of his racism when they agreed the compensation. I am sure, if his contrition is genuine, that he will now return the money. That's all I ask for.

I think a couple of comments on social media does when he was 19 does not make him an anti Jew, much like I don’t think Ballance and Hoggard are anti Asian. It’s a bit of an odd take. I would also wonder if you have evidence of how many Jews pay the fees, not that it matters because it’s a totally different situation to the institutionalised racism within YCCC, and if it’s has so many Jews as members would that mean they are in fact part of the problem?

I don’t think that, I’m just trying to follow your logic.

I agree with you personally, but we've definitely had posters on this thread that think Ballance is 'anti-Asian', and I can see why to a certain extent.

The whole thing is very complicated.
There's too much opinion and not enough fact.
17:26, Fri 19 Nov
It’s not at all complicated.