16:36, Tue 16 Nov
I’d only heard that word in a film at that point and just didn’t understand why it was so bad until at 15 I studied gcse history and we covered the apartheid

I remember a distinct gasp from me and my pals when we realised the severity of it.

I was fortunate in terms of my upbringing, large diverse family with cousins of dual heritage so we heard very little

It was just the one word, I guess, in my experience, that I’d never heard bar that film that I didn’t grasp.

At the time, stupid me thought the man had a funny accent and it sounded funny when my mates did impressions. Soon learnt

I cant remember hearing that word said again, certainly from people I know. ( bar tv/film)
mad
16:44, Tue 16 Nov
Homer
Maurice Chambers has claimed racism when he played for Essex and Northants.He said he didn't experience it when he played for the Bears.

TBF he was only there a short while joined at same time as Chris Wright

There are young Bears who never made it for one reason or another - Navdeep Poonia, Ateeq Javid, Recordo Gordon, Naqaash Tahir plagued by back troubles

Azeem Rafiq himself had a short trial at Warwickshire at the start of the 2019 (or maybe 2018?) season I saw him play for Bears 2nds at Moseley CC

The real shame of all this is he's basically quit the sport at 29 and spinners come into their prime in their 30's perhaps England would be looking at lots of white ball trophies had he played at a county with a dressing room environment that wasn't so toxic as at Headingley
16:48, Tue 16 Nov
I was thinking the same. Ballance knew what the word meant alright and Hoggard toured South Africa and will know what it meant.
Alex Hales even named his dog Kevin after the word.

They can shove their apologies up their holes.

I accept there will always be differences in views and cultures and that is fact. It isn't a bad thing. If people want to experience new things fine. If they don't then fine also. That is personal choice.
First and foremost it is about respecting each other.

I'm all for a bit of banter but some of the stuff I've read is way over the line. A bit like some of those dodgy no balls a few years back!

Being a person whose mouth has got him into trouble more than once, I have some sympathy with the view, if there is such a view, and it may be the case with Hoggard that although they knew they were being pricks, they didn't appreciate the harm their words and actions were causing, coz it wasn't harming them. Some sympathy, not much
16:55, Tue 16 Nov
Fat Buddha
I was thinking the same. Ballance knew what the word meant alright and Hoggard toured South Africa and will know what it meant.
Alex Hales even named his dog Kevin after the word.

They can shove their apologies up their holes.

I accept there will always be differences in views and cultures and that is fact. It isn't a bad thing. If people want to experience new things fine. If they don't then fine also. That is personal choice.
First and foremost it is about respecting each other.

I'm all for a bit of banter but some of the stuff I've read is way over the line. A bit like some of those dodgy no balls a few years back!

Being a person whose mouth has got him into trouble more than once, I have some sympathy with the view, if there is such a view, and it may be the case with Hoggard that although they knew they were being pricks, they didn't appreciate the harm their words and actions were causing, coz it wasn't harming them. Some sympathy, not much

This is my view.

Hoggard's as thick as mince mind, and I doubt he knew how much hurt his words were causing.
There's too much opinion and not enough fact.
17:05, Tue 16 Nov
Has it been reported what Bumble said?

[twitter.com]
17:06, Tue 16 Nov
Bumble has just tweeted an apology for something he said a couple of years ago about the Indian cricket community.
mad
17:10, Tue 16 Nov
Homer
Bumble has just tweeted an apology for something he said a couple of years ago about the Indian cricket community.

This type of underhand racism is certainly prevalent throughout the county and club game. I wouldn't be surprised if there were elements of this attitude within decision making at Warwicks (as everywhere) over the years but not the openly and oh so proud racism that Yorkshire dressing rooms tolerated

Club cricket in B'ham is nowhere near as segregated as the leagues in Yorkshire although there are certainly teams with mostly one ethnicity depending where the club is located. The club ex Viler Gareth Barry played for, for instance, in Worcestershire will have a very different make up to Attock CC up the road from me

There's a brilliant 12/13 year old at Attock who got games for Warks 2nds this season
17:15, Tue 16 Nov
mad
mad
Homer
Maurice Chambers has claimed racism when he played for Essex and Northants.He said he didn't experience it when he played for the Bears.

TBF he was only there a short while joined at same time as Chris Wright

There are young Bears who never made it for one reason or another - Navdeep Poonia, Ateeq Javid, Recordo Gordon, Naqaash Tahir plagued by back troubles

Azeem Rafiq himself had a short trial at Warwickshire at the start of the 2019 (or maybe 2018?) season I saw him play for Bears 2nds at Moseley CC

The real shame of all this is he's basically quit the sport at 29 and spinners come into their prime in their 30's perhaps England would be looking at lots of white ball trophies had he played at a county with a dressing room environment that wasn't so toxic as at Headingley

I’d be surprised if there isn’t discrimination at Warwicks, at a time when cricket professes ‘inclusivity’ ever more loudly, it has become ever more overwhelmingly an elitist sport. The issues don’t solely express themselves in racial terms, though this is the most egregious illustration of it. There has been a lot of understandable focus on the most explicit manifestations of racism in this case, more difficult to tackle are the seemingly ingrained attitudes that Rafiq highlights - about not wanting to fit in, being uncommitted, even lazy, and certainly a trouble maker (who I imagine is characterised as supposed victim with a grudge). We hear plenty of that from the likes of Michael Vaughan. It’s a pretty familiar trope ascribed often reflexively to black players in football (never mind the almost total absence of black British cricketers in the game).

The Yorkshire players who indulged in this are a bunch of Neanderthals, but the response of the club is equally prehistoric. They need to confront what they are and vow to change, for the good of the club itself and more importantly wider society. Warwicks need to give itself a proper examination too. Tim Bresnan was an excellent player for us this year. As someone has said in this thread, I’d say he had plenty to face up to.
17:22, Tue 16 Nov
mad
mad
Homer
Bumble has just tweeted an apology for something he said a couple of years ago about the Indian cricket community.

This type of underhand racism is certainly prevalent throughout the county and club game. I wouldn't be surprised if there were elements of this attitude within decision making at Warwicks (as everywhere) over the years but not the openly and oh so proud racism that Yorkshire dressing rooms tolerated

Club cricket in B'ham is nowhere near as segregated as the leagues in Yorkshire although there are certainly teams with mostly one ethnicity depending where the club is located. The club ex Viler Gareth Barry played for, for instance, in Worcestershire will have a very different make up to Attock CC up the road from me

There's a brilliant 12/13 year old at Attock who got games for Warks 2nds this season


Used to play football against Attock,absolute nightmare :)
17:28, Tue 16 Nov
Ironically, black English players were much more prevalent back in the 70s and 80s.

I guess that's because more cricket was played at state schools back then?

I used to open the bowling with a black lad in the late 70s all the way from my school, then at area level, then for a local club, and then at a senior club league level.

We never discussed race once as far as I can remember, although he stopped playing for some reason, and I didn't.
There's too much opinion and not enough fact.
mad
17:30, Tue 16 Nov
Is there something about the specialisms required to play cricket that lends it to this more than say football?

There are for instance at each county and club 1st XI only 2 slots for opening bat, 1 if we're lucky for a spinner, then there's the keeper and the skills of opening bowler etc...

This would intensify at a club like Yorkshire which had a closed shop for so many years and then tentatively opened in the mid 90's and where there are generations of players that have come through families - the Bairstow's, Sidebottom's, Lumb's and Hartley's for example

Does this then lead to highly competitive attitudes between contenders for places on the team and for contract renewals - jealousy, bullying and toxic masculinity rise up as a result leading to extreme cases like we've seen but general suspicion beneath that?
17:31, Tue 16 Nov
IanT
Ironically, black English players were much more prevalent back in the 70s and 80s.

I guess that's because more cricket was played at state schools back then?

I used to open the bowling with a black lad in the late 70s all the way from my school, then at area level, then for a local club, and then at a senior club. He stopped playing for some reason, and I didn't.


What sort of level did you play at,club wise ?
17:35, Tue 16 Nov
I have heard on the radio news the word Kevin being mentioned and being offensive. I had to call in my local to see the landlord, called Kevin and that was the topic of conversation in there...in fact everybody was laughing. The thing is none of us know what Kevin means and why it is offensive? We have had a stab that it is a Yorkshire term.

Can anybody on here enlighten me?
17:36, Tue 16 Nov
When I was a kid there used to be 4 or five matches taking place at Ward End park, and teams with players from a Caribbean background were prominent - all now lost in one generation. Cricket is dying on the Caribbean too.

We played cricket at our school but with poor facilities. Clubs are making an effort now and there is more in primary schools but I think it’s a struggle. It’s hardly played as an informal game.

In a way that makes it even more urgent cricket finds a way of being part of wider society, and starting in places in society where the game is valued, loved and played would be a sensible start.
17:37, Tue 16 Nov
Spying Cop
I have heard on the radio news the word Kevin being mentioned and being offensive. I had to call in my local to see the landlord, called Kevin and that was the topic of conversation in there...in fact everybody was laughing. The thing is none of us know what Kevin means and why it is offensive? We have had a stab that it is a Yorkshire term.

Can anybody on here enlighten me?



No idea but,if Ballance used it,it may be South African.