The owners clearly appointed Rooney as a 'big name' rather than his CV. I think if he was sacked within the next few games what 'big name' manager, that the owners think is needed, would want to come here?
Anyone on here could tell you it wasn’t going to work even with all of our players fit, let alone putting Gary Gardner in the starting lineup.
The problem Rooney has is the way of playing under JE was the optimal way to play with these players, he’s implemented a poor imitation of it the last 2 games so hopefully he’s not far from finding out what we all knew months ago.
Dan I've decided to answer your questions before reading the rest of the thread.
a) We can't turn the clock back and whilst I feel it's my club, the reality is the owners own it and have made their choice. I don't think it was a good one and I don't think it was done well. Announcing how the team will play (even if the words were hype) takes options away from a coach and has, I think, confused fans, players etc and opened us up to ridicule. But surely we have to get away from upheaval and manager change every few months. So I would want to see the current manager, or the next one backed, and see the club building sustainably and in steady incremental steps, albeit accumulating points by dogged means when and where necessary, rather than handbrake turns. I am scarred (over-emotional) by the Zola farago and the subsequent descent into farce.
b) I think my answer is implied above. If there are signs of progress in the football, and points are accumulated, at least a couple of windows. Despite my atheism, I'd pray for a 10 year tenure of success with one coach that brought stability then success.
Now I'll read the rest of the thread.
PeakyblueDan I've decided to answer your questions before reading the rest of the thread.
a) We can't turn the clock back and whilst I feel it's my club, the reality is the owners own it and have made their choice. I don't think it was a good one and I don't think it was done well. Announcing how the team will play (even if the words were hype) takes options away from a coach and has, I think, confused fans, players etc and opened us up to ridicule. But surely we have to get away from upheaval and manager change every few months. So I would want to see the current manager, or the next one backed, and see the club building sustainably and in steady incremental steps, albeit accumulating points by dogged means when and where necessary, rather than handbrake turns. I am scarred (over-emotional) by the Zola farago and the subsequent descent into farce.
b) I think my answer is implied above. If there are signs of progress in the football, and points are accumulated, at least a couple of windows. Despite my atheism, I'd pray for a 10 year tenure of success with one coach that brought stability then success.
Now I'll read the rest of the thread.
I’m with you.
Changing the manager so soon would suggest the CEO doesn't have a plan, let alone Rooney.
For me JE proved in his last 2 home games that the team can be attacking and score goals as well as being relatively solid at the back.
So my expectation would be to see more of that as well as knowing when to be tactically savvy when needing a plan B. At times JE tended to unnecessarily sit deep behind a single goal lead when we had teams on the ropes and could have pushed on to win by 2 or 3.
I'd like to think this squad could sit between 8th and 12th and only need 3 or 4 players added at a better quality to then push for the play offs next season.
I'd like to see any new manager given a minimum of a season and a half to build us up to that with the obvious caveat that we're in not any relegation trouble.
The club has found stability off the field at long last so we now need it on field.
Like others have said, I think it would be a bad idea to sack him. Instead, I would like to see if Rooney could run with a different plan and only part company if he can't/won't do it, or further along if he fails with it.
To answer the two questions, for a) pretty much what others have said - I would like to see that those in charge understand what they are working with in terms of the existing squad and the financial limitations.
I would like to see them make slow and steady progress with the fundamentals - becoming better at attacking while being solid at the back, instead of going for such a dramatic change of style and tactics. To be able to see sensible use of formations and a suitable, recognisable and reasonably entertaining playing style which gets the best out of the squad and where observers can see that the players are comfortable and familiar with it, that they understand their roles within it and most importantly to be able to see that the players believe in the effectiveness of it themselves and buy into the philosophy (genuinely).
My main gripe was that they have done this (in this manner) in the first place and what that says about how much effort they put into understanding what they were working with. It seems as though not enough people who were involved in making this decision really understood football at this level. I reckon Gardner should have been able to advise them, he has been involved in choosing many of the newer players, so I wonder how much he was involved in this decision?
As for timeframes (b) I really don't know. I just think that going slow and steady when it comes to making changes is the best way for our club, whether that's changing management or changing playing style/tactics.
What's your answer to a)?
Nose of BlueHuddersfield we did. Albion we certainly didn’t show much attacking verve but got lucky. Probably as lucky when that git Sneekes got the late goal in that Sunday game at their place in the 90’sFor me JE proved in his last 2 home games that the team can be attacking
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WR BlueLike others have said, I think it would be a bad idea to sack him. Instead, I would like to see if Rooney could run with a different plan and only part company if he can't/won't do it, or further along if he fails with it.
To answer the two questions, for a) pretty much what others have said - I would like to see that those in charge understand what they are working with in terms of the existing squad and the financial limitations.
I would like to see them make slow and steady progress with the fundamentals - becoming better at attacking while being solid at the back, instead of going for such a dramatic change of style and tactics. To be able to see sensible use of formations and a suitable, recognisable and reasonably entertaining playing style which gets the best out of the squad and where observers can see that the players are comfortable and familiar with it, that they understand their roles within it and most importantly to be able to see that the players believe in the effectiveness of it themselves and buy into the philosophy (genuinely).
My main gripe was that they have done this (in this manner) in the first place and what that says about how much effort they put into understanding what they were working with. It seems as though not enough people who were involved in making this decision really understood football at this level. I reckon Gardner should have been able to advise them, he has been involved in choosing many of the newer players, so I wonder how much he was involved in this decision?
As for timeframes (b) I really don't know. I just think that going slow and steady when it comes to making changes is the best way for our club, whether that's changing management or changing playing style/tactics.
What's your answer to a)?
From my original post (I might not have made it clear):
IF that did happen and someone else came in, I'd hope to God they'd be given the time to settle things back down and I'd take a season of consolidation in the middle of the table gratefully.
I don't know if they talked to Rooney in the summer, but I'm convinced John 'DvB' Useless was always on borrowed time. With regards to signings made in the summer, I thought we did look at players who can play a couple of roles. Problem has been the gambles taken on injuries so far haven't worked out, especially in the case of Tyler Roberts.
I agree with Iain_Gavin that the club needs to be able to continually identify coaches (and players) who can come in as replacements for what we have, to maintain an ethos and identity. I don't know if that is happening and it's something I want to be reassured more of from the club.
I would like to see them make slow and steady progress with the fundamentals - becoming better at attacking while being solid at the back, instead of going for such a dramatic change of style and tactics.
That's it, in a nutshell. Any new manager would need to make us solid at the back then implement gradual change, evolution not revolution - which is the mistake Rooney has made. Going back to the original plan would make him look weak and the sacking of John 'DvB' Useless even more stupid. Mid-table would be fine, with a view to looking at challenging for the play-offs next season.
Thanks. When I saw your answer, it looked more like an answer to b) only. So your answer to this part of a) -
what you'd like to see from a manager to make you feel like things were progressing
...would be?
I think we've made our bed now with Rooney for this season minimum.
I checked Leroy Rosenior's first 10 games as Hull boss, as he seems to play the way Rooney wants to, and supported Rooney after they beat us by saying that it takes time to implement the system they both like.
His results were W3 D5 L2, so he had a reasonable immediate impact. I am supporting Rooney but there are warning signs: no obvious positive impact on any area; and by the sound of it no clear new way of playing in any case.
El MayorHaving seen people ask for an adult conversation about Rooney on here, I've got some honest hypothetical questions for those who are not happy with the current situation.
Imagine for some hypothetical reason Rooney is dismissed, and another manager is appointed.
FWIW it doesn't necessarily follow that those not happy with Rooney being appointed now want him sacked. Personally I'm at the acceptance stage now unless or until it gets so bad they have to get rid of him. Assuming we were to lose the next two at home, I think they may think they have to do it (and most clubs wouldn't tolerate a run that bad in most circumstances) but I'm sort of back to my depressed apathy of most of the last few years. I certainly won't be calling for his head.
a) What would your expectations be for this new manager with the squad as it is, with the remaining games we have? I'm not expecting specifics, but I want to know what you'd like to see from a manager to make you feel like things were progressing.
I'd be perfectly happy with midtable as I was before a ball was kicked. The start under John 'DvB' Useless upgraded that to 'outside hopes of under the radar play off qualification'. Longer term, it would depend on how well they play wouldn't it? We probably ought to be expecting 'there or thereabouts' for the play offs next season.
b) What sort of timeframe do you think this new manager would have to meet those expectations? Do you think a new manager would have a honeymoon / grace period as they settled into the role?
I think whoever comes in in this hypothetical should get plenty of time as sporting gravity would have corrected and the mess won't be their fault. There not being much mess to fix in the first place is what's driving a lot of the negativity I think, and they should have known this would be the case for a sizeable chunk of the fan base.
I'm honestly not having a dig at anyone here; if anything I'm trying to work out what people want to happen and what would make them happier.
This is a bigger question. I'm not sure a sacking would make me 'happier'. If anything, it would add to the circus that was created by appointing him. The genie can't really be put back in the bottle unless there's a really decent and sustained uptick in form, structure, attitude, style of play etc. That said, memories are short in football and if he could get us playing like 60 mins of the Ipswich game more often than not it would all soon be forgotten - by me at least. I just feel said we squandered all the good will, togetherness and the chance of enjoyable season for what always looked like being a bit of a silly pantomime.
If it turns out like this and he reverts to the perceived optimal way of playing, then there was no real need to change managers.