I thought we've been pretty good for this of late but the stats say otherwise.
Prior to the win over Sheffield Wednesday, Blues ranked 23rd out of 24 in the Championship for minutes played by "Club-trained" players. A "club-trained" player is one who has spent at least three years with the club between the ages of 15 and 21. While Blues have fielded five of these "club-trained" players, they have played a total of 3.1% of total minutes. Leading club is Bristol City, who have fielded seven "club-trained" players accounting for 33.7% of the total minutes played by first team players this season.
Original source of stat: [football-observatory.com]
Disappointing but not surprising. The only player that's been playing regularly-ish from the academy team for the first team XI this season was Jordan James. It would definitely have gotten higher if George Hall and Alfie Chang wasn't injured.
Hopefully that'd change some time, as well as Hall and Chang I would like to see more academy players like Junior Dixon, Brandon Khela & Romelle Donovan in the lineup in the near future.
Yeah, it is surprising considering we were amongst the highest (if not the highest) for minutes given to under 21s last season. Though when you think of the influx of players this season, plus the injuries to Hall and Chang, I guess it's unsurprising.
Formerly DeckchairYeah, it is surprising considering we were amongst the highest (if not the highest) for minutes given to under 21s last season. Though when you think of the influx of players this season, plus the injuries to Hall and Chang, I guess it's unsurprising.
Yes, we did play lots of under 21s last season.
But were they all OUR under 21s, who came through our academy?
Interesting that. It looks like we don’t give our young uns so many minutes but our young uns are much younger than most of the other clubs young uns. Sunderland’s average being 22.5 against our 19.1. And top of the tree Bristol being 22.6. Leeds is 23.2.
Suppose it could be seen as damning that none of ours at the upper age range are any good. Using5 players is pretty good overall, and better than most
Tha Project OBEInteresting that. It looks like we don’t give our young uns so many minutes but our young uns are much younger than most of the other clubs young uns. Sunderland’s average being 22.5 against our 19.1. And top of the tree Leeds being 23.2.
Suppose it could be seen as damning that none of ours at the upper age range are any good.
Maybe?
I would expect clubs having older ex-Academy players have had betters ones in the past and have been able to hang onto them. With us it feels once a player has turned 20/21 without getting into the team they're discarded.
I think there is certainly some value in looking further into it in that respect.
It'd be much higher, as you say, with Chang and Hall fit.
Chang would be thriving under Rooney, he keeps the ball so well. I think he'd be starting alongside Bielek and/or Bacuna.
Hall is so frustrating, we do need to give him time to get his body right but it's such a shame as there's a special player there I feel.
Your comment about us playing lots of u21s last year but were they 'ours', other than Hannibal and Longelo I don't think there was anyone else who didn't come through our academy was there?
I think Khadra was too old to be considered for that and he was the only other one I could think of.
Hall, Jobe, Chang, James and Williams all played a decent amount of football. I suppose percentage wise Hannibal would make up a big chunk of the total minutes, but it's only one player.
On a related note, I think we seem reluctant to try young players in certain positions.
Was Nico Gordon really that much more promising than other young centre halves? Was nobody else deemed as good or worthy of a chance? Similarly, up front we've had dross options for a long time and not really given much opportunity to youngsters there- though it's the hardest position on the pitch and therefore the biggest step up.
We do seem to be very good at producing central midfielders mind.
I think our talent tends to get snapped up earlier than most. No data behind this, just feeling.
We've rarely had a player come through and be forecasted at our level. That or they didn't want to stay because a Premier League team came calling.
This data called also be skewed by players coming back despite developing elsewhere, eg if we signed Butland in summer and he played every game that would nearly be a 10% increase on participation.
Nikola ZigicIt'd be much higher, as you say, with Chang and Hall fit.
Chang would be thriving under Rooney, he keeps the ball so well. I think he'd be starting alongside Bielek and/or Bacuna.
Hall is so frustrating, we do need to give him time to get his body right but it's such a shame as there's a special player there I feel.
Your comment about us playing lots of u21s last year but were they 'ours', other than Hannibal and Longelo I don't think there was anyone else who didn't come through our academy was there?
I think Khadra was too old to be considered for that and he was the only other one I could think of.
Hall, Chang, James and Williams all played a decent amount of football. I suppose percentage wise Hannibal would make up a big chunk of the total minutes, but it's only one player.
Khadra was 21 at the start of the season and I believe would count, as would Tahith Chong.
El MayorNikola ZigicIt'd be much higher, as you say, with Chang and Hall fit.
Chang would be thriving under Rooney, he keeps the ball so well. I think he'd be starting alongside Bielek and/or Bacuna.
Hall is so frustrating, we do need to give him time to get his body right but it's such a shame as there's a special player there I feel.
Your comment about us playing lots of u21s last year but were they 'ours', other than Hannibal and Longelo I don't think there was anyone else who didn't come through our academy was there?
I think Khadra was too old to be considered for that and he was the only other one I could think of.
Hall, Chang, James and Williams all played a decent amount of football. I suppose percentage wise Hannibal would make up a big chunk of the total minutes, but it's only one player.
Khadra was 21 at the start of the season and I believe would count, as would Tahith Chong.
I forgot that just because we signed Chong it didn't mean he came through our academy. Chong and Hannibal will massively skew it then.
Still, on a frequency of player basis, we do give individuals the opportunity.
As people have said though, we've signed better players so youth doesn't get as much of a chance. The only reason we played so many kids for so long is because we were skint and had to.
People like Arthur, Reilly, Hancox, Gordon, Gray etc wouldn't have got a chance if we had these owners. That's just part of football unfortunately, I wonder how many good kids miss their chance because a club signs some trusted journeyman instead.
Nikola ZigicI wonder how many good kids miss their chance because a club signs some trusted journeyman instead.
Soemthing I often wonder too.
You’ve only got to look at Jude, no doubt the kid would’ve burst on to the scene eventually but who knows how long he’d have been waiting for his first team chance if Montero didn’t go down against Stoke.
Super HansYou’ve only got to look at Jude, no doubt the kid would’ve burst on to the scene eventually but who knows how long he’d have been waiting for his first team chance if Montero didn’t go down against Stoke.
Bit of a weird situation though as I imagine Clotet was under a lot of pressure to play him. A very unique situation probably considering he's gone on to be the best player in the world.
George Hall though, would he have got a chance without injuries or if we'd signed Miyoshi, Anderson etc last season?
El MayorI thought we've been pretty good for this of late but the stats say otherwise.
Prior to the win over Sheffield Wednesday, Blues ranked 23rd out of 24 in the Championship for minutes played by "Club-trained" players. A "club-trained" player is one who has spent at least three years with the club between the ages of 15 and 21. While Blues have fielded five of these "club-trained" players, they have played a total of 3.1% of total minutes. Leading club is Bristol City, who have fielded seven "club-trained" players accounting for 33.7% of the total minutes played by first team players this season.
Original source of stat: [football-observatory.com]
I think "of late" is key our longer term record of producing and retaining academy players isn't impressive.
Looking at Bristol, wiki has their two players with the most starts this season as academy products both 24+ years old - we're behind because we haven't managed to establish a few academy graduates in the first team. We'd probably look better if they capped the age of the players they counted at 23.
Blues put a stat out last week, haven't we had 100 consecutive games with a youth team graduate in the team?
Not sure if that's a start or just matchday squad. I thought it was impressive though.