tebilyI'm nearly 30. In my whole life there've been what, two seasons when the ground was full? When we first got to the Prem? I have never known us to have sellouts regularly since I've been old enough to go of my own accord. I don't know why people think there's a huge latent supporter base just waiting to go back to games. So often there are threads about why we're not selling out. We didn't sell out in the Prem, we didn't sell out when we were finishing 2nd in the Championship.
I'm not trying to be a downer either. I just think we're not in a position where we're a good season away from 30k home attendances every week, as we've had good seasons and that hasn't happened.
Think that's the key - me being in my 60's, when I started going I remember the place heaving at times, over 45k crowds for the big games.
I realise that an awful lot of those fans have now sadly passed, but the usual legacy is that those old fellahs and ladies pass down the allegiance.
Some will have walked away from Blues forever, some will be still Blues in their blood but don't go anymore, but I genuinely believe the support is out there, all this club needs is success, sustained over a few seasons. Look at Wembley, if you are wanting more recent evidence of that in your own time.
Despite what vilers will insist, 20,000 that day in 2011 weren't vilers out on day trips with their Blue mates, either 🙂
KESThe problem has been a few things. In recent times the lack of work to build a stronger season ticket base is a big one.
Over time like others have said, when we were successful we were seen as dull and poor to watch, just scrambling over the line at times.
Our promotions seasons were a little bit different to the likes of Leicester and Southampton now. Even the likes of Albion under Mowbray. We were always pragmatic, doing things without style and excitement, just hard work, passion and a likle bit of class. These things go against getting more people through the gates.
We're actually averaging more this season than the last time we got promoted.
The trouble with that is even 2011 was 13 years ago - long enough for another older generation to pass on or stop going (e.g my dad stopped a couple of seasons ago), and we've been awful for most of that spell, so there's probably been fewer than average new fans to replace them. I think it's right there's a bit of latent support out there, and pick-and-choose people who might come more often as Rab is getting at. But the biggest thing for me is the longer term plan to get new fans in, rather than victimising potentially imaginary stay-aways (not saying you're doing that by the way). Winning some and getting higher up the table would help too.
I would say it's well over 35k tbh, loads of people will go just once or twice when you consider how many people live dotted around the country. I'd imagine there's not an even distribution of attendance - loads will go home and away, loads won't go at all or will go once. Then you'll have a relative few who make it to 10-20 games given as that's the most expensive way to do it and it's not very attractive to go.
Which sort of outlines my point. To get a ground regularly full you need a really big supporter base as most just don't go regularly
tebilyI'm nearly 30. In my whole life there've been what, two seasons when the ground was full? When we first got to the Prem? I have never known us to have sellouts regularly since I've been old enough to go of my own accord. I don't know why people think there's a huge latent supporter base just waiting to go back to games. So often there are threads about why we're not selling out. We didn't sell out in the Prem, we didn't sell out when we were finishing 2nd in the Championship.
I'm not trying to be a downer either. I just think we're not in a position where we're a good season away from 30k home attendances every week, as we've had good seasons and that hasn't happened.
I know what you mean. People saying the last ten years thing is odd because the seasons we were going back up to the Premier League on the late Noughties we weren't getting big numbers.
The Devlin DisguiseThe trouble with that is even 2011 was 13 years ago - long enough for another older generation to pass on or stop going (e.g my dad stopped a couple of seasons ago), and we've been awful for most of that spell, so there's probably been fewer than average new fans to replace them. I think it's right there's a bit of latent support out there, and pick-and-choose people who might come more often as Rab is getting at. But the biggest thing for me is the longer term plan to get new fans in, rather than victimising potentially imaginary stay-aways (not saying you're doing that by the way). Winning some and getting higher up the table would help too.
I think new fans will be the main target nowz and it should be. It's a big city and we will find a way to appeal to it.
With that I imagine there will be a few things that some traditional fans may not like.
The Devlin DisguiseThe trouble with that is even 2011 was 13 years ago - long enough for another older generation to pass on or stop going (e.g my dad stopped a couple of seasons ago), and we've been awful for most of that spell, so there's probably been fewer than average new fans to replace them. I think it's right there's a bit of latent support out there, and pick-and-choose people who might come more often as Rab is getting at. But the biggest thing for me is the longer term plan to get new fans in, rather than victimising potentially imaginary stay-aways (not saying you're doing that by the way). Winning some and getting higher up the table would help too.
The only way of knowing for sure is for this club to actually enjoy a little sustained success - even operating up in the top 6 of this division, let alone the prem and - God forbid - doing well up there and tackling a top 10 place. Let's hope eh?
CharcytebilyI'm nearly 30. In my whole life there've been what, two seasons when the ground was full? When we first got to the Prem? I have never known us to have sellouts regularly since I've been old enough to go of my own accord. I don't know why people think there's a huge latent supporter base just waiting to go back to games. So often there are threads about why we're not selling out. We didn't sell out in the Prem, we didn't sell out when we were finishing 2nd in the Championship.
I'm not trying to be a downer either. I just think we're not in a position where we're a good season away from 30k home attendances every week, as we've had good seasons and that hasn't happened.
I know what you mean. People saying the last ten years thing is odd because the seasons we were going back up to the Premier League on the late Noughties we weren't getting big numbers.
Exactly. And part of what I was trying to say is that 30 years is a long time of having small crowds, it's gonna be a real struggle to change such a trend.
I don't think we don't have the potential to grow. I think we have massive potential. Tbh we've gotta do better at attracting a more diverse fan base. Loads say "Brum has 1m people, where are all the fans?", but I'd imagine we have more people shlepping over from Chelmsley than we do walking over from Small Heath.
The club knows that though, that's why I was glad to see 'South Asian community engagement' on the list of the fan engagement priorities.
CharcyThe Devlin DisguiseThe trouble with that is even 2011 was 13 years ago - long enough for another older generation to pass on or stop going (e.g my dad stopped a couple of seasons ago), and we've been awful for most of that spell, so there's probably been fewer than average new fans to replace them. I think it's right there's a bit of latent support out there, and pick-and-choose people who might come more often as Rab is getting at. But the biggest thing for me is the longer term plan to get new fans in, rather than victimising potentially imaginary stay-aways (not saying you're doing that by the way). Winning some and getting higher up the table would help too.
I think new fans will be the main target nowz and it should be. It's a big city and we will find a way to appeal to it.
With that I imagine there will be a few things that some traditional fans may not like.
Spot on.
It's a massive city for the club bearing it's name to be averaging 20k ish.
It's a young city too, which is all part of the vision. New fans are the key, not those that used to attend.
CharcytebilyI'm nearly 30. In my whole life there've been what, two seasons when the ground was full? When we first got to the Prem? I have never known us to have sellouts regularly since I've been old enough to go of my own accord. I don't know why people think there's a huge latent supporter base just waiting to go back to games. So often there are threads about why we're not selling out. We didn't sell out in the Prem, we didn't sell out when we were finishing 2nd in the Championship.
I'm not trying to be a downer either. I just think we're not in a position where we're a good season away from 30k home attendances every week, as we've had good seasons and that hasn't happened.
I know what you mean. People saying the last ten years thing is odd because the seasons we were going back up to the Premier League on the late Noughties we weren't getting big numbers.
Those times weren't exactly all roses though were they? I remember the discontent with Gollivan, the terrible football under Bruce, a lot weren't happy, even when we got promoted again there were moans about the football.
I'm thinking more of the early prem years, when there was a genuine feel good factor around the club, that's when you'll see how much latent support there is - I happen to think the last 11/12 years is pretty pertinent as well, under these owners I think that can happen again (the feelgood). Do agree though that new fans will be targeted, but that happens organically with some success.
if we are playing well and challenging towards the top 6 then with a decent base of ST holders we'll get 25k on a sat regularly with the odd 28k for big games
we need to build a season ticket base and with an exiting summer window and more feel good factor from the owners we have a shot at doing that, they really need to be smart with the early bird renewals and winning back lapsed fans....make a play 'come back to st.andrews' there wasnt much if any of that last summer (dont think they had time tbf) I was someone that came back after giving up during covid simply because of the new ownership and wanting to be part of it, there will be thousands more out there that with the right approach can win back as st holders along with new fans ....getting them committed in the summer as ST holders is the key
the likes of Sunderland, Norwich, etc etc who have regular large attendances are down to having high season ticket sales
Bluesince62CharcytebilyI'm nearly 30. In my whole life there've been what, two seasons when the ground was full? When we first got to the Prem? I have never known us to have sellouts regularly since I've been old enough to go of my own accord. I don't know why people think there's a huge latent supporter base just waiting to go back to games. So often there are threads about why we're not selling out. We didn't sell out in the Prem, we didn't sell out when we were finishing 2nd in the Championship.
I'm not trying to be a downer either. I just think we're not in a position where we're a good season away from 30k home attendances every week, as we've had good seasons and that hasn't happened.
I know what you mean. People saying the last ten years thing is odd because the seasons we were going back up to the Premier League on the late Noughties we weren't getting big numbers.
Those times weren't exactly all roses though were they? I remember the discontent with Gollivan, the terrible football under Bruce, a lot weren't happy, even when we got promoted again there were moans about the football.
I'm thinking more of the early prem years, when there was a genuine feel good factor around the club, that's when you'll see how much latent support there is - I happen to think the last 11/12 years is pretty pertinent as well, under these owners I think that can happen again (the feelgood). Do agree though that new fans will be targeted, but that happens organically with some success.
Read what you've written. It doesn't really put those fans in the best light does it? Sounds like there's always an excuse.
Genuinely don't know the answer to thisz is there a big difference between the number of season ticket holders pre COVID to now?
CharcyBluesince62CharcytebilyI'm nearly 30. In my whole life there've been what, two seasons when the ground was full? When we first got to the Prem? I have never known us to have sellouts regularly since I've been old enough to go of my own accord. I don't know why people think there's a huge latent supporter base just waiting to go back to games. So often there are threads about why we're not selling out. We didn't sell out in the Prem, we didn't sell out when we were finishing 2nd in the Championship.
I'm not trying to be a downer either. I just think we're not in a position where we're a good season away from 30k home attendances every week, as we've had good seasons and that hasn't happened.
I know what you mean. People saying the last ten years thing is odd because the seasons we were going back up to the Premier League on the late Noughties we weren't getting big numbers.
Those times weren't exactly all roses though were they? I remember the discontent with Gollivan, the terrible football under Bruce, a lot weren't happy, even when we got promoted again there were moans about the football.
I'm thinking more of the early prem years, when there was a genuine feel good factor around the club, that's when you'll see how much latent support there is - I happen to think the last 11/12 years is pretty pertinent as well, under these owners I think that can happen again (the feelgood). Do agree though that new fans will be targeted, but that happens organically with some success.
Read what you've written. It doesn't really put those fans in the best light does it? Sounds like there's always an excuse.
It's the truth how I remember it though. There was a lot of frustration around those years, as it became apparent that Gollivan had lost interest after the casino scheme went kaput, all the excitement and promise after the 'Man U of the Midlands' guff died away.. Blues fans are no different to any others - success and you will see them come back, more of what we have suffered under BSH and the crowds will continue to dwindle.
These owners now are the best chance we've had to see the club enjoy some good times again, no doubt in my mind at all. It's bloody exciting and that alone is going to grow the crowd, whether it's lapsed old sods like me or 'new' fans from the City and surrounds. I can't wait to see what the next couple of years look like.
It was really only the first couple of seasons in the Prem that really had that feel good factor - and even that was more of a 'backs to the wall'/underdog thing rather than us being that good. We've never really done what, say, Wolves or West Ham have done in recent years. I think we all rightly wanted to progress, and then it all got a bit stale, and then pretty poisonous by the end of Gollivans.
We effectively sold out for the first three seasons, then it dwindled and we were down at 25k by the last two seasons up there. That after 13 years of dross we're still only 20% down on that is a testament to how loyal/gluttons for punishment we are - especially given that those top tier crowds would have lots of big away ends mixed in.