Rosenior will get a top half Championship job relatively easily I'd imagine, I'm not sure GVB could
Brad1875Rosenior will get a top half Championship job relatively easily I'd imagine, I'm not sure GVB could
GVB is far too close to DVB for my liking
Brad1875Why not? Hasn't had a job for 2 years and will probably have a similar budget to what he had at Rangers (maybe, i'm just guessing here)
I wonder why he hasn't had a managerial job in 2 years?
Doubt he would be interested anyway.
NeilMBrad1875Why not? Hasn't had a job for 2 years and will probably have a similar budget to what he had at Rangers (maybe, i'm just guessing here)
I wonder why he hasn't had a managerial job in 2 years?
Doubt he would be interested anyway.
Turned down some jobs in that time, because he was enjoying time with his family.
I think he has recently expressed an interest in returning to management in the Netherlands.
mjd2505Of course, as much as Neil doesn't inspire me, if we appoint him I'll be right behind him and hoping he can work some magic.
Back on his note though, I saw a Stoke fan say something along the lines of his 2 promotions in England maybe aren't as good as they're made out to be. Norwich had the best side in the league and he took over when they were just outside the playoffs and got them promoted through playoffs, and Sunderland were already 4th when he took over. Owners gambled on him for automatics, and he got up through playoffs. Just some interesting context to note.
Have you seen the players he had at Norwich?
Maddison, Cantwell, Aarons, Lewis, Godfrey, Gunn.
Sunderland he had Clarke, Pritchard, McGeady, Grigg, Ross Stewart & a fair few of the youngsters who are in their squad now.
I honestly do not think Neil is a good manager whatsoever, watch the Sunderland Netflix thing, the bloke struggled like hell to get that squad over the line in the playoffs.
He is so far removed from all the claptrap that Cook has spouted about the direction the club wants to go in.
Rowett was a necessity due to Mowbrays illness imo, but other than Rooney being a dud firework, why are they now stepping away from the much mentioned philosophy they want from a manager and team.
As I said earlier as much as there is pressure to get back up, I myself could live with them going for a young manager in that mould and it taking time to build it, and I think most fans would too, bare in mind a new division, new squad overhaul, new philosophy implemented.
To go with Neil I just don’t know what they are even thinking or what the plan is, it just seems like they are as confused as us fans are atm with the on-field approach.
Can’t fault them off it, stadium will be ace and all they are doing regards off field enhancements, but god they are making an absolute clustereff of setting us up to be successful on the pitch.
I agree.
I think the worst part in particular is it's completely not what they've told us they'll be aiming for. It's not ambitious, it's not bold, it's not world class, it's not building for the future, it's anti all of that. That will be the biggest disappointment for me.
Hopefully he's just been interviewed as part of a process and they've cast their net wide, hence why he was included. But I seriously hope he isn't the man they choose to go forwards with. Doesn't mean I'm expecting a Rosenior, Cooper, Still etc. But when you have other options that fans in a couple of days have thought of, like Challinor, I'd be really disappointed if that's who they chose.
mjd2505This sums it up for me.I agree.
I think the worst part in particular is it's completely not what they've told us they'll be aiming for. It's not ambitious, it's not bold, it's not world class, it's not building for the future, it's anti all of that. That will be the biggest disappointment for me.
Hopefully he's just been interviewed as part of a process and they've cast their net wide, hence why he was included. But I seriously hope he isn't the man they choose to go forwards with. Doesn't mean I'm expecting a Rosenior, Cooper, Still etc. But when you have other options that fans in a couple of days have thought of, like Challinor, I'd be really disappointed if that's who they chose.
Alex F@cking Neil.
Not exciting
Not bold, not in the slightest bit interesting.
Not even necessarily good - he’s got a half decent record taking over sides who were already built for him and doing well
Personality and charisma of a slug.
If that is the extent of our “ambition” God help us
Why is Challinor so much better than Neil? His teams average fewer passes and a lower passing accuracy than Neil’s, and their teams average the same amount of shots per game. Challinor has also never managed a game above the fourth division.
FWIW I wouldn’t select either, I just find it interesting the perception of both being at such extreme ends of the spectrum on here and on Twitter. One is considered progressive and the other a dinosaur, I find the psychology of it all quite interesting.
Ironically if we wanna go full data geek then Mowbray and Neil’s underlying numbers (before Stoke) we’re pretty similar
I reckon Neil will be one of about 10 that they interview anyway
Because that’s the modern game! Most teams are scouring the next up and coming guy whether it’s domestically or abroad.
Steve Bruce has had multiple promotions and relative success, but also has been found out to what level and production he can operate at and deliver.
It’s why Graham Potter was flavour of the month, then the likes of Rob Edward’s, David Artell and other lower leagues managers, now it’s Kieran McKenna, all these types have come from lower league and displayed ability to make what situations they have not only better but improve them tenfold..
it’s a gamble to go that direction but that’s the thing here, do you back your ideals and philosophy or do you backtrack and play it safe, right now it seems Blues don’t know what the eff to do internally.
We know Neil’s ceiling, do we know Challinors or guys like Mike Williamson or a Michael Skubala? Based on very limited resources, their style of play/philosophy they cannot be looked at the same way as someone like Neil who’s walked into pretty solid situations tbh with a lot of talent to work with.
Blues are at a point in time imo where they can implement any philosophy they want, of course the fans wants and crave promotion, but do you know what they’d also like a forward thinking football team, who takes a game to team every week win lose or draw. They’d like to enjoy going every week, be proud & entertained win lose or draw, they’d like to say my team plays like this win lose or draw.
How many managers did Brentford/Brighton go through to get to where they wanted to go? Unnamed ones too, but they laid out there philosophy and for better or worse they stuck to it.
I’m sorry but if Neil is the answer I don’t know what the question is, and it’s not even about what us fans think, Cook as I said spouted his ideals and ambitions, so have some balls, eff what happened with Rooney, follow them through for better or worse, don’t fanny it at the first time it goes wrong.
I wouldn’t dispute much of what you’ve said, I was questioning why people consider Challinor to be progressive and Neil to be a dinosaur when the data (that the club will be using) doesn’t say that at all
To me it says people have a perception of other people that’s often not based on a lot of substance.
It’s not a criticism I just find it interesting. Fans want the club to follow others in using data and when they do, people get angry because they don’t like the bloke they’ve interviewed, based on a preconceived idea that they have about them.
And again, I wouldn’t select either, as I’m hoping for someone better.
Le ModWhy is Challinor so much better than Neil? His teams average fewer passes and a lower passing accuracy than Neil’s, and their teams average the same amount of shots per game. Challinor has also never managed a game above the fourth division.
FWIW I wouldn’t select either, I just find it interesting the perception of both being at such extreme ends of the spectrum on here and on Twitter. One is considered progressive and the other a dinosaur, I find the psychology of it all quite interesting.
I reckon Neil will be one of about 10 that they interview anyway
I haven't looked into their respective stats deep enough to properly compare them - so this is mostly opinion and subjective.
Neil did a great job with Hamilton, did win promotion with Norwich and Sunderland but already had building blocks in place and just took them across the finish line (also left Norwich in 8th), did decent with a low budget at Preston and failed at Stoke. He doesn't appear to be likeable which isn't a huge factor but is worth noting.
It's fair to look at Challinor and say well he's had success but it's always been at lower levels than what we're at now, in most of his seasons significantly lower levels. But he has managed a 53% win rate on average, much higher than Neil's 40%, and he's consistently finished at least in the playoffs in almost all of his seasons, winning some titles too. He's been credited for his sides work ethic out of possession, pressing with intensity regardless of whether it's from deep or pressing high to win the ball. And this season Stockport were 4th for possession, with an average of 58% (I think?). I've also watched a couple interviews and like how he sounds, and not heard anything to say he's an arse bar how he left Hartlepool.
I think he'll have the drive to really push us on as it's a first for him too, whereas I've read Sunderland fans saying Alex Neil more or less said he thinks he's bigger and better than league one. And he's just a bit of an unknown quantity, alright maybe league two is his level but he's shown an ability to step up and perform at 4 different levels so far, I don't think it's a reach to say he could step up again one more level to league one and maybe higher, especially with most likely the best squad and biggest budget in the league. I think we've potentially seen Alex Neil's ceiling though. Challinor strikes me as someone you could build around for a few seasons and give the opportunity to step up, whereas I think Neil is a short term appointment to just get us out of league one.
Honestly, I'd not heard of the bloke 9am yesterday morning. I could be talking right out my arse. But to me he just feels like a more left field, progressive choice than Neil. Another small factor but I think Challinor would be more readily accepted by the fans and given more time than Neil would, who would be seemingly an unpopular appointment. It's not the be all and end all, but it does matter, because Neil will have more pressure to deliver straight away.
Le ModI wouldn’t dispute much of what you’ve said, I was questioning why people consider Challinor to be progressive and Neil to be a dinosaur when the data (that the club will be using) doesn’t say that at all
To me it says people have a perception of other people that’s often not based on a lot of substance.
It’s not a criticism I just find it interesting.
I suppose to simplify what I’m getting at, people would hope or believe a Challinor type (the architipal up & coming new talent ) with Knightheads backing etc could potentially ascend to a higher level than Neil’s ceiling is at.
It’s mostly potential based of course, and I suppose that was the logic in Rooney that his potential ceiling would surpass someone like a Eustace who’s pretty obviously going to be limited imo to what he can and cannot achieve.
But that’s the point for me, what are we going to do here.. are we going to double down and say no this is what we want to be this is what we are sticking too like a said Brighton/Brentford, this is our way, our philosophy or are we going to say no we were burnt once now it’s time to play it safe approach.
It will be interesting to see what we choose to do as a club.
TaylorJay84Le ModI wouldn’t dispute much of what you’ve said, I was questioning why people consider Challinor to be progressive and Neil to be a dinosaur when the data (that the club will be using) doesn’t say that at all
To me it says people have a perception of other people that’s often not based on a lot of substance.
It’s not a criticism I just find it interesting.
I suppose to simplify what I’m getting at, people would hope or believe a Challinor type (the architipal up & coming new talent ) with Knightheads backing etc could potentially ascend to a higher level than Neil’s ceiling is at.
It’s mostly potential based of course, and I suppose that was the logic in Rooney that his potential ceiling would surpass someone like a Eustace who’s pretty obviously going to be limited imo to what he can and cannot achieve.
But that’s the point for me, what are we going to do here.. are we going to double down and say no this is what we want to be this is what we are sticking too like a said Brighton/Brentford, this is our way, our philosophy or are we going to say no we were burnt once now it’s time to play it safe approach.
It will be interesting to see what we choose to do as a club.
I think this is the nail on the head with how I feel too. I think the amount we've heard about "the project" and stuff too, Challinor would be a "project" manager, someone to build alongside and give the time and trust to improve us. That's one of my main appealing factors for Rosenior and Still too. Neil isn't that, he just isn't.