SHA Small Heath Alliance

They are accountable for the mess on the pitch, perhaps not fully as changing managers, style, Rooney all are factors, but they’re not blameless. Sanderson is the easiest example, club captain, who ends up drink driving.

I don't give a eff if they want to stay or not.

They got us relegated by not being good enough, they got us into this mess they can get us out of it.

You're under contract, we'll sell you if we want to, not if you want us to.

Bluenose27

They are accountable for the mess on the pitch, perhaps not fully as changing managers, style, Rooney all are factors, but they’re not blameless. Sanderson is the easiest example, club captain, who ends up drink driving.

Yeah, I think that if we're pointing fingers of blame, we're going to need a lot of fingers. There's clearly been many factors at work here.

And yet even with all that, claiming that those players are above blues is laughable.

Nikola Zigic- FEA

I don't give a eff if they want to stay or not.

They got us relegated by not being good enough, they got us into this mess they can get us out of it.

You're under contract, we'll sell you if we want to, not if you want us to.

I feel very much the same, but the reality of football these days (if not always) is that if a player wants out, there's no point keeping the bastard him.

Bluenose27

They are accountable for the mess on the pitch, perhaps not fully as changing managers, style, Rooney all are factors, but they’re not blameless. Sanderson is the easiest example, club captain, who ends up drink driving.

I'm sorry but no. They aren't accountable for the mess on the pitch EXCEPT for when they aren't trying. And very few times this season have I seen a team that has been devoid of effort or fight. We lack PURPOSE and CONFIDENCE. Things that take most teams months and months of consistency to instill.

You know how teams like to give a new manager a whole preseason with their new players to make sure everything is drilled in by the first game? Shapes, partnerships, routines. All the time you hear, "at least give him the summer window to get his own players in, and have a proper preseason". But our players are expected to perform at a high level with 6 different managers directing them totally different things? Trying to go from JE's rigid shape + counterattack style to "No Fear" Total football? Now back to Rowettball after a spell with TM/MV?

Come off it. Nobody can be expected to work well under such circumstances.

Super Hans

And yet even with all that, claiming that those players are above blues is laughable.

They are better than where we are today. Fully capped Japan, Poland and S. Korea internationals.

If Rotherham signed any of those I listed, we'd all be shocked. They are too good for Rotherham. They are too good to be fighting a relegation battle. If we lost them, it would be very difficult to replace them with equal or better, especially when we need to strengthen in so many other areas. Not sure why we are deluding ourselves to think otherwise.

Rags

Rags

Rags

Buchanan and Laird would be the best full backs in that league by miles

Spot on

You've even proven that with decent managers we'd be close to, or in, the play-offs. But people aren't interested ... they just want to unload their bile and vitriol at the easiest target that doesn't involve any thought

What are you basing that claim on? The close to or in the playoffs one.

er .. the facts as Le Mod posted them.
Our points return per game under Eustace and Mowbray

The same Eustace who had us 7th last December and ended up finishing 17th would have got us to around 70 points at this stage of the season?

Mowbray sample size is far too small, and I say that as someone who loves the bastard.

We've got the following players who are better than merely "good" at this level..

Laird
Buchanan
Drameh
Bielik
Dozzell
Bacuna
Paik
Miyoshi
Stansfield

Some who are good on their day..
James (who has the excuse of the inconsistency of youth)
Anderson
Dembele
Sanderson (alongside Long or Bielik)

One who is good when asked to fulfil a specific role
Sunjic

and a few who haven't shown their ability enough to call them good
T.Roberts
Pritchard

Then there's some who definitely aren't up to this level any more
Juke (bless him)
Hogan
Burke
Gardner
M.Roberts

The player we REALLY needed to be good never actually managed a single game for us . .
Mr Half Decent Centre Forward

You're falling into the trap of viewing some average players (average is ok its not a slight) as good

Not a single one youve listed as better than merely good is better than average

Some have potential to be

Others like Dozzell who cant get in the team Im a bit surprised at

Dozzell is an absolute baller ... not a Rowett type though.

If we sign him he'll definitely be in the running for player of the season in a Mowbray team

QPR mate of mine says he is terribly inconsistent.

Super Hans

Rags

Rags

Buchanan and Laird would be the best full backs in that league by miles

Spot on

You've even proven that with decent managers we'd be close to, or in, the play-offs. But people aren't interested ... they just want to unload their bile and vitriol at the easiest target that doesn't involve any thought

What are you basing that claim on? The close to or in the playoffs one.

er .. the facts as Le Mod posted them.
Our points return per game under Eustace and Mowbray

The same Eustace who had us 7th last December and ended up finishing 17th would have got us to around 70 points at this stage of the season?

Mowbray sample size is far too small, and I say that as someone who loves the bastard.

If you put the three competent managers together though, you'd get 23 games from them, with a 35 point return. One point to consider with Eustace from this season and last season is that a) he didn't have a pre-season to speak of and b) he didn't have the squad that we have this year - his own squad, if you like. I think that the contrast between the professional managers (JE/TM/GR) and Rooney/Venus are stark enough to be worth considering over similar amounts of games.

I think that we've all seen in recent seasons, the difference that a competent manager can have with the same set of players.

We've all seen in recent seasons, that we tend to finish a gnats cock away from relegation whoever is charge.

They are accountable for the mess on the pitch, perhaps not fully as changing managers, style, Rooney all are factors, but they’re not blameless. Sanderson is the easiest example, club captain, who ends up drink driving.

We were shit against Rotherham but almost every player performed exactly the role that Rowett set the team up to play.

Yes, Miyoshi should have scored but that would have meant us scoring 100% of the decent chances.

If you are claiming managers have little effect and it's all down to the players we may as well have kept Rooney.

Rags

Rags

Rags

Buchanan and Laird would be the best full backs in that league by miles

Spot on

You've even proven that with decent managers we'd be close to, or in, the play-offs. But people aren't interested ... they just want to unload their bile and vitriol at the easiest target that doesn't involve any thought

What are you basing that claim on? The close to or in the playoffs one.

er .. the facts as Le Mod posted them.
Our points return per game under Eustace and Mowbray

The same Eustace who had us 7th last December and ended up finishing 17th would have got us to around 70 points at this stage of the season?

Mowbray sample size is far too small, and I say that as someone who loves the bastard.

We've got the following players who are better than merely "good" at this level..

Laird
Buchanan
Drameh
Bielik
Dozzell
Bacuna
Paik
Miyoshi
Stansfield

Some who are good on their day..
James (who has the excuse of the inconsistency of youth)
Anderson
Dembele
Sanderson (alongside Long or Bielik)

One who is good when asked to fulfil a specific role
Sunjic

and a few who haven't shown their ability enough to call them good
T.Roberts
Pritchard

Then there's some who definitely aren't up to this level any more
Juke (bless him)
Hogan
Burke
Gardner
M.Roberts

The player we REALLY needed to be good never actually managed a single game for us . .
Mr Half Decent Centre Forward

You're falling into the trap of viewing some average players (average is ok its not a slight) as good

Not a single one youve listed as better than merely good is better than average

Some have potential to be

Others like Dozzell who cant get in the team Im a bit surprised at

Dozzell is an absolute baller ... not a Rowett type though.

If we sign him he'll definitely be in the running for player of the season in a Mowbray team

QPR mate of mine says he is terribly inconsistent.

... and I say that they are a shit team who don't play to his strengths.

Fat Buddha CBE FEA

Super Hans

Rags

Rags

Buchanan and Laird would be the best full backs in that league by miles

Spot on

You've even proven that with decent managers we'd be close to, or in, the play-offs. But people aren't interested ... they just want to unload their bile and vitriol at the easiest target that doesn't involve any thought

What are you basing that claim on? The close to or in the playoffs one.

er .. the facts as Le Mod posted them.
Our points return per game under Eustace and Mowbray

The same Eustace who had us 7th last December and ended up finishing 17th would have got us to around 70 points at this stage of the season?

Mowbray sample size is far too small, and I say that as someone who loves the bastard.

If you put the three competent managers together though, you'd get 23 games from them, with a 35 point return. One point to consider with Eustace from this season and last season is that a) he didn't have a pre-season to speak of and b) he didn't have the squad that we have this year - his own squad, if you like. I think that the contrast between the professional managers (JE/TM/GR) and Rooney/Venus are stark enough to be worth considering over similar amounts of games.

I think that we've all seen in recent seasons, the difference that a competent manager can have with the same set of players.

We've all seen in recent seasons, that we tend to finish a gnats cock away from relegation whoever is charge.

That's not quite right - looking at Rowett (first time round) and Monk and their records with us, it does tend to favour the view that a competent manager can get results for us. If Tony had remained fit and well, I don't think that we'd be anywhere near the parlouse position that we're in now.

Tam

Nikola Zigic- FEA

I don't give a eff if they want to stay or not.

They got us relegated by not being good enough, they got us into this mess they can get us out of it.

You're under contract, we'll sell you if we want to, not if you want us to.

I feel very much the same, but the reality of football these days (if not always) is that if a player wants out, there's no point keeping the bastard him.

We'll be in the financial position to be dicks about it. I hope we do so.

Nikola Zigic- FEA

Tam

Nikola Zigic- FEA

I don't give a eff if they want to stay or not.

They got us relegated by not being good enough, they got us into this mess they can get us out of it.

You're under contract, we'll sell you if we want to, not if you want us to.

I feel very much the same, but the reality of football these days (if not always) is that if a player wants out, there's no point keeping the bastard him.

We'll be in the financial position to be dicks about it. I hope we do so.

Hmm - while I'm sure you're right, I don't think that we'd want to keep a bloated squad, some of whom don't want to play for us. I hope that they'd want to stick around, but if they haven't got the desire to do that, we're not going to get the best out of them, so might as well feck 'em off for players that want to be here.

yeehaw

Super Hans

And yet even with all that, claiming that those players are above blues is laughable.

They are better than where we are today. Fully capped Japan, Poland and S. Korea internationals.

If Rotherham signed any of those I listed, we'd all be shocked. They are too good for Rotherham. They are too good to be fighting a relegation battle. If we lost them, it would be very difficult to replace them with equal or better, especially when we need to strengthen in so many other areas. Not sure why we are deluding ourselves to think otherwise.

And they’re a part of where we are today.

People can gnash their teeth at Rooney, Venus etc until their mouth bleeds but the players take as much responsibility as they do for our predicament.

It’s not Venus’ fault we lost so many late goals for instance.