Generally when a club has a bunch of money to spend, loads of revenue and a good manager, they don't get relegated. We're a weird case where FFP has meant we can't really spend any money until this summer, our increased revenue has had little effect on what we can spend yet and our manager has gone off ill...
Bluenose27And if the worst happens we’ll be there because we deserve to be there. No team is too big to go down, bet the vile thought that before they got relegated from the prem.
I recall many saying Ipswich were too good to go down to div 1. It took them 4 years to come back.
Le ModThank you.Also, teams such as Wrexham, Stockport, Bolton maybe if they don't go up this season, have a winning mentality after gaining promotions recently, whilst Blues haven't had that for over a decade
Ipswich had been complete shit for a decade. New owners, one good transfer window, and they blew the league apart.
Owners are key. Look at Wrexham. Ipswich as you mention. Salford are the ones who’ve messed up and that’s why Neville criticising others is laughable
Nikola Zigic- FEAYep. And Rotherham generally come back up. It’s players, budget and manager/backroom staff and owners that are keyPeople talk about clubs not having a winning mentality to come back up. Show me a team that gets relegated with a winning mentality.
It's stupid.
NewheavenlybluesBluenose27And if the worst happens we’ll be there because we deserve to be there. No team is too big to go down, bet the vile thought that before they got relegated from the prem.
I recall many saying Ipswich were too good to go down to div 1. It took them 4 years to come back.
Right, lets do a comparison.
Ipswich went down in 18/19 in last position on 31 points. They had 5 wins all season. We're currently on 46 points with 12 wins. Considerable difference there.
In 19/20 in League 1, Ipswich then signed 7 new players. 6 were free transfers and 1 cost 500k.
We haven't gone down yet but you think we'll only spend 500k?
Last season, Ipswich signed 11 players on undisclosed fees in addition to 5 on free transfers (much more in the realm of what we'd be likely to do) and they not only got promoted, they then went on to compete for automatic promotion in the Championship the year after.
It's not a like for like comparison.
League 1 doesn't have FFP like the Championship. We can spend whatever we want on transfer fees as long as Wagner picks the bill up. There's a cap on wages based on your revenue - that means we can spend an unlimited amount of transfers and can spend considerably more than every other club in the league on wages. You have to have owners who can fund that though - Ipswich didn't so they remained in League 1. Once they got owners who could fund promotion, they shot up instantly.
Le ModBuddy MercerBuddy MercerAlso, teams such as Wrexham, Stockport, Bolton maybe if they don't go up this season, have a winning mentality after gaining promotions recently, whilst Blues haven't had that for over a decade
Ipswich had been complete shit for a decade. New owners, one good transfer window, and they blew the league apart.
And 4 seasons in League 1
Then new owners, one window, pissed promotion
The whole 'winning mentality' thing is folly imo, if you've got better players and a manager than everyone else they'll you soon develop a 'winning mentality' as you'll be winning every week
It didn't quite work out like that though.
A majority of their players were home grown / there when Paul Cook was manager.
The magic started when rookie manager McKenna was brought in from Man U's coaching staff to replace Cook in Dec 2021. Their promotion only happened in the following 22/23 season, 3 windows later, when they finished 2nd behind Plymouth.
The point is people use Ipswich as an example to suggest that we wont get promoted, it's a bad example because as soon as they got new owners and a good manager they smashed it
McKenna arrived in Dec 2021 and didn't sign anyone in Jan 22, he signed 5 or 6 in summer 2022 who are still key players now, and 3 or 4 more in Jan 2023, they got 98 points at the first time of asking. So it took 1 season (two windows in the same season) to eradicate all of their previous issues and create a 'winning mentality', nearly getting 100 points
And that's with a wage budget of 17M, ours wont be far off double
Saying Ipswich stuggled for years is meaningless when the new onwership and a good manager got them up straight away as soon as he signed some players.
We can say that there's been loads of Charlton's, and loads of Portsmouths, and loads of Wigan's, but there's never been a Birmingham, there's never been a team in League One with revenues of £40M or a wage budget 400% higher than the league average
This is the worst sort of arrogance.
I'm pretty certain bioth Sunderland and W*lv*s had massive budgets compared to everyone else.
Double relegations meant they still had parachute payments.
Sunderland took a while to get back up.
Firstly we aren't down. We will see what happens if we get relegated If you look at all the possible results we still have a pretty good chance of staying up.
Regardless of whether we stay up or go down the squad will be largely rebuilt. Obviously the budget and the players will differ.
This means it might take a while next season to get a team that plays well together. Whichever division we are in we will be more reliant on individuals doing well than is ideal at the start of next season.
The transfer window system works against us (and any team that makes massive changes). Ideally we would get in some players then strengthen the squad by looking at our weaknesses over more than the first 3 or 4 games. But to an extent we have to guess about who won't work out or who will get injured.
I see it more as confidence/optimism than arrogance
Moddy is quite a chill guy
This is the worst sort of arrogance.
I'm pretty certain bioth Sunderland and W*lv*s had massive budgets compared to everyone else.
Double relegations meant they still had parachute payments.
Christ, it's nothing to do with arrogance as already explained, change the name from Birmingham City to Renford Rejects, it's irrelevant, this is not a partisan opinion, Blues having the largest revenues and biggest budget in the league would be a fact.
As for your comparisons:
Wolves, won the league easily and therefore prove the point, so that's a bad comparison to start with, but their revenues were £32M, wage bill of £16.4M
Sunderland, highest turnover they had in League on was £26M (as per their accounts), wage budget was circa £19M
So yes, Blues would have the biggest turnover and biggest budget in the history of the league, it's not arrogance, it's a fact.
Sheep2'm pretty certain bioth Sunderland and W*lv*s had massive budgets compared to everyone else.
Double relegations meant they still had parachute payments.
I may be wrong, but when Wolves did their double relegation, I thought they lost the parachute payments as they only get paid to championship clubs?
They got the last one whilst in League One, £8 Million. Turnover of £32M that year but actually only put £16.4M into the playing budget, though that was nearly double the next biggest budget, which contributed to them winning the league with 103 points and finishing 17 points clear of third.
That's fair.
It's more the original post I saw as arrogant.
Whatever division we are in we will deserve to be there.
Phrases like
Jesus wept. Blues having to play this pile of dung
don't sit well with me.
In the league you face pretty much the opposition you deserve to.
Sheep2Le ModBuddy MercerBuddy MercerAlso, teams such as Wrexham, Stockport, Bolton maybe if they don't go up this season, have a winning mentality after gaining promotions recently, whilst Blues haven't had that for over a decade
Ipswich had been complete shit for a decade. New owners, one good transfer window, and they blew the league apart.
And 4 seasons in League 1
Then new owners, one window, pissed promotion
The whole 'winning mentality' thing is folly imo, if you've got better players and a manager than everyone else they'll you soon develop a 'winning mentality' as you'll be winning every week
It didn't quite work out like that though.
A majority of their players were home grown / there when Paul Cook was manager.
The magic started when rookie manager McKenna was brought in from Man U's coaching staff to replace Cook in Dec 2021. Their promotion only happened in the following 22/23 season, 3 windows later, when they finished 2nd behind Plymouth.
The point is people use Ipswich as an example to suggest that we wont get promoted, it's a bad example because as soon as they got new owners and a good manager they smashed it
McKenna arrived in Dec 2021 and didn't sign anyone in Jan 22, he signed 5 or 6 in summer 2022 who are still key players now, and 3 or 4 more in Jan 2023, they got 98 points at the first time of asking. So it took 1 season (two windows in the same season) to eradicate all of their previous issues and create a 'winning mentality', nearly getting 100 points
And that's with a wage budget of 17M, ours wont be far off double
Saying Ipswich stuggled for years is meaningless when the new onwership and a good manager got them up straight away as soon as he signed some players.
We can say that there's been loads of Charlton's, and loads of Portsmouths, and loads of Wigan's, but there's never been a Birmingham, there's never been a team in League One with revenues of £40M or a wage budget 400% higher than the league average
This is the worst sort of arrogance.
I'm pretty certain bioth Sunderland and W*lv*s had massive budgets compared to everyone else.
Double relegations meant they still had parachute payments.
Sunderland took a while to get back up.
Firstly we aren't down. We will see what happens if we get relegated If you look at all the possible results we still have a pretty good chance of staying up.
Regardless of whether we stay up or go down the squad will be largely rebuilt. Obviously the budget and the players will differ.
This means it might take a while next season to get a team that plays well together. Whichever division we are in we will be more reliant on individuals doing well than is ideal at the start of next season.
The transfer window system works against us (and any team that makes massive changes). Ideally we would get in some players then strengthen the squad by looking at our weaknesses over more than the first 3 or 4 games. But to an extent we have to guess about who won't work out or who will get injured.
Sort of true about Sunderland - the problem was they were in a complete hole, financially. In 17-18 (relegation season) and 18-19 (1st in League 1) they were desperately offloading to survive - loads of rubbish players on Premier League wages and dramatically falling income, even with the parachute payments. That was the era when they had players like Rodwell stealing a living from them.
Sheep2Le ModBuddy MercerBuddy MercerAlso, teams such as Wrexham, Stockport, Bolton maybe if they don't go up this season, have a winning mentality after gaining promotions recently, whilst Blues haven't had that for over a decade
Ipswich had been complete shit for a decade. New owners, one good transfer window, and they blew the league apart.
And 4 seasons in League 1
Then new owners, one window, pissed promotion
The whole 'winning mentality' thing is folly imo, if you've got better players and a manager than everyone else they'll you soon develop a 'winning mentality' as you'll be winning every week
It didn't quite work out like that though.
A majority of their players were home grown / there when Paul Cook was manager.
The magic started when rookie manager McKenna was brought in from Man U's coaching staff to replace Cook in Dec 2021. Their promotion only happened in the following 22/23 season, 3 windows later, when they finished 2nd behind Plymouth.
The point is people use Ipswich as an example to suggest that we wont get promoted, it's a bad example because as soon as they got new owners and a good manager they smashed it
McKenna arrived in Dec 2021 and didn't sign anyone in Jan 22, he signed 5 or 6 in summer 2022 who are still key players now, and 3 or 4 more in Jan 2023, they got 98 points at the first time of asking. So it took 1 season (two windows in the same season) to eradicate all of their previous issues and create a 'winning mentality', nearly getting 100 points
And that's with a wage budget of 17M, ours wont be far off double
Saying Ipswich stuggled for years is meaningless when the new onwership and a good manager got them up straight away as soon as he signed some players.
We can say that there's been loads of Charlton's, and loads of Portsmouths, and loads of Wigan's, but there's never been a Birmingham, there's never been a team in League One with revenues of £40M or a wage budget 400% higher than the league average
This is the worst sort of arrogance.
I'm pretty certain bioth Sunderland and W*lv*s had massive budgets compared to everyone else.
Double relegations meant they still had parachute payments.
Sunderland took a while to get back up.
Firstly we aren't down. We will see what happens if we get relegated If you look at all the possible results we still have a pretty good chance of staying up.
Regardless of whether we stay up or go down the squad will be largely rebuilt. Obviously the budget and the players will differ.
This means it might take a while next season to get a team that plays well together. Whichever division we are in we will be more reliant on individuals doing well than is ideal at the start of next season.
The transfer window system works against us (and any team that makes massive changes). Ideally we would get in some players then strengthen the squad by looking at our weaknesses over more than the first 3 or 4 games. But to an extent we have to guess about who won't work out or who will get injured.
Sort of true about Sunderland - the problem was they were in a complete hole, financially. In 17-18 (relegation season) and 18-19 (1st in League 1) they were desperately offloading to survive - loads of rubbish players on Premier League wages and dramatically falling income, even with the parachute payments. That was the era when they had players like Rodwell stealing a living from them.
Stealing a living?
Fat Buddha CBE FEASheep2Le ModBuddy MercerBuddy MercerAlso, teams such as Wrexham, Stockport, Bolton maybe if they don't go up this season, have a winning mentality after gaining promotions recently, whilst Blues haven't had that for over a decade
Ipswich had been complete shit for a decade. New owners, one good transfer window, and they blew the league apart.
And 4 seasons in League 1
Then new owners, one window, pissed promotion
The whole 'winning mentality' thing is folly imo, if you've got better players and a manager than everyone else they'll you soon develop a 'winning mentality' as you'll be winning every week
It didn't quite work out like that though.
A majority of their players were home grown / there when Paul Cook was manager.
The magic started when rookie manager McKenna was brought in from Man U's coaching staff to replace Cook in Dec 2021. Their promotion only happened in the following 22/23 season, 3 windows later, when they finished 2nd behind Plymouth.
The point is people use Ipswich as an example to suggest that we wont get promoted, it's a bad example because as soon as they got new owners and a good manager they smashed it
McKenna arrived in Dec 2021 and didn't sign anyone in Jan 22, he signed 5 or 6 in summer 2022 who are still key players now, and 3 or 4 more in Jan 2023, they got 98 points at the first time of asking. So it took 1 season (two windows in the same season) to eradicate all of their previous issues and create a 'winning mentality', nearly getting 100 points
And that's with a wage budget of 17M, ours wont be far off double
Saying Ipswich stuggled for years is meaningless when the new onwership and a good manager got them up straight away as soon as he signed some players.
We can say that there's been loads of Charlton's, and loads of Portsmouths, and loads of Wigan's, but there's never been a Birmingham, there's never been a team in League One with revenues of £40M or a wage budget 400% higher than the league average
This is the worst sort of arrogance.
I'm pretty certain bioth Sunderland and W*lv*s had massive budgets compared to everyone else.
Double relegations meant they still had parachute payments.
Sunderland took a while to get back up.
Firstly we aren't down. We will see what happens if we get relegated If you look at all the possible results we still have a pretty good chance of staying up.
Regardless of whether we stay up or go down the squad will be largely rebuilt. Obviously the budget and the players will differ.
This means it might take a while next season to get a team that plays well together. Whichever division we are in we will be more reliant on individuals doing well than is ideal at the start of next season.
The transfer window system works against us (and any team that makes massive changes). Ideally we would get in some players then strengthen the squad by looking at our weaknesses over more than the first 3 or 4 games. But to an extent we have to guess about who won't work out or who will get injured.
Sort of true about Sunderland - the problem was they were in a complete hole, financially. In 17-18 (relegation season) and 18-19 (1st in League 1) they were desperately offloading to survive - loads of rubbish players on Premier League wages and dramatically falling income, even with the parachute payments. That was the era when they had players like Rodwell stealing a living from them.
Stealing a living?
Supposedly his contract didn't have a relegation clause, so he was earning higher end Premier League wages in the Championship and only played 2 games all season, then they paid off the last year of his contract.