SHA Small Heath Alliance

I'm neither. I'm Blues.

I think JE knew the limitations of the players so played to a system which l would say was less adventurous than the new manager .
He has now had 5 games to assess and come up with a system where he is supposed to improve results.
The new manager has had tougher games in my opinion but l can't say we look better .
If results don't pick up soon he will be gone .

GBBlue

I keep seeing this bandied about as the short term solution to our problems but what does that mean?

I understand the woes of the Albatross of "no fear" football that was created unnecessarily however especially in the last 2 or 3 games I am not really seeing that our ills are caused by this stylist change (if there really has been one). It certainly hasn't been a new gung ho attacking football mindset that has done us over.

We have maintained a flat back 4 with two defensive minded midfielders. The only significant difference I can see is Burke playing more centrally and the full backs pushing up a bit more. We are certainly not passing any more under Rooney. We managed a paltry 167 against Ipswich and 215 against Sunderland yesterday. Only against Plymouth this season was this comparatively low under Eustace. Subsequently our possession stats under Rooney have deteriorated, and they were pretty rank under Eustace this year and last. A new bold sophisticated style it hasn't been just more of the same but with less clear defensive solidity.

I get the "back to basics" convo when we moved from AK to Bowyer. When we were able to play it long, use the width, and use Juke method. That was like slipping back into a comfortable slipper you should throw out because it is past it best but remains reassuringly functional.

What do we want to see Rooney revert back to?

We need to stop leaking simple goals, if that means we go back to being set up like we were before Rooney, then I’d be more than happy. Can’t understand ‘we need to see it through approach’. That will only end up like Zola did.

Tom TheProject Brady

Then again, it yielded better results.

Eustace had a 5 game run this season, against much worse opposition, where he got just 1 more point than Rooney has achieved in his 5.

True but you are cherrypicking a section of the season. The 2nd half v Norwich was dire but otherwise we were still drawing games and on another day we hang on for a draw at watford (they scored 87 mins) and get a point or win at preston. In other words we weren't being battered weekly in that period despite the lack of wins

To mirror their seasons Rooney will now gave to go 5 unbeaten like JE did at beginning of season. I really hope he does

There you go !
What a brilliant post. Summed it up perfectly.
The fanbase IS split, some want Rooney out, and are called ''bedwhetters'', and others want him given time, they're seen as dithering eternal optimists.
One things for sure, Rooneys way is not working, will it ever ?
Something has to change, we need to get out of this loosing streak, with or without Rooney.
In football, much as it is in life, it's all about timing, IN MY OPINION, our owners got their timing way off, sacking Eustace, and then appointing Rooney when we were in 6th, should never of happened, but it has.
Mr Cook said the club want to make world class appointments, I do not see Rooneys managerial record as being world class. He should never have been appointed when Eustace was sacked.
I did not want him, and nothing has convinced me otherwise since.
From 6th position in the table on 6th October, to 18th position in a little over a month, NO FEAR FOOTBALL ?
oops, I better go and change me bed sheets.

Petebaldwin

I don't think we're at that point yet personally. We absolutely need to start picking up some results but if we revert back to hoofball, that would make me more worried about the future than if we stuck to it and lost.

The sort of change the owners want takes time. There are plenty of examples of teams who took 10 or so games to get used to a new style and then went on to do well. That's not to say that this will happen at Blues or that Rooney is trying to get them to play in a way that will eventually work (I don't know...) but it's way too early to just throw everything in the bin and give up. I hate all this "no fear" bollocks but at the very base level, it at least means believing in your plan and seeing it through.

My view was always that these 5 games were tough so I was willing to let Rooney effectively have a pre-season with the players. We've now got 2 weeks where they can work hard on the training pitch, we can get some of our injured players back and we then go into some matches we should be winning. We won't be the finished article yet but I expect to see a very clear improvement when we next play.

But we weren't playing hoofball before Rooney took over. And we certainly don't look like we are trying to play tika-taka since he took over either. So I can't see what exactly it is we are supposed to be being patient about waiting to see develop.

And why are so many happy to see us lose games while this supposed improvement takes time to happen?

When I used to play Water Polo, at a high level, we were able to change tactics all the time, playing full press, half press, or just sitting deep. I know football is different, no jokes please, I never understand why teams dont adopt lots of systems in a game determined by the score and possession.
I DO KNOW that the transition period of change of possession is critical to attacking and defending.
We only appear to be one dimensional.

You’re right. The only difference I’ve seen is that we create a few more chances, but we’re still not good enough to take them, and now we can’t defend. We still have little possession and let teams dominate us, and try to play fast and direct.

I’ll say it again; the biggest issue for me atm is the defence, which is dreadful and we look like conceding every time the opponents come forward. I think Rooney has to take a bit of the blame for that, especially with his tactic of having the full backs really narrow or too high up the pitch.

quark

David Xavis

Bit I struggle with is how we transform this in January to give him the tools he needs, I’m not actually sure what he needs!

It would appear we need players that can run at 100 MPH for 90 mins plus. Defenders that can attack and defend and goal keeper that can pass like Beckham

Quite. Lol

I don’t think it’s too much to expect our players to keep going better than they have, though the lack of quality off the bench particularly in attack (which we have to hope will be remedied) is a problem. Other teams do it, including in our league.

Ruddy’s distribution really wasn’t a problem yesterday. It was quite good.

I did some googling to see what coaching qualifications Rooney has and found a few articles from June 23 saying that he was studying for his pro licence -

The Pro License will clear him to work long-term in England as a manager

[www.tribalfootball.com]

[www.mirror.co.uk]

I couldn't find any confirming that he had finished/passed. Looking at what he has done at Blues, I can't help wondering if he is like a typical college graduate (yes, I was one recently too) - the type who get criticised in the job market (across all skillsets, not just football) for being full of ideas and talk but somewhat lacking in on-the-job experience about how things actually work in the real world outside of the classroom?

It seems almost as if he has had his head filled with 'progressive' ideas EG "don't do any of that old-fashioned four-four feckin two rubbish with two strikers and a flat back four, nowadays it's about a high-pressing game with full-backs switching a 4-2-2-2 into a 4-2-4, no out-and-out striker, goalkeeper playing as an outfield sweeper - this is how Pep does it at Man City and how they do it at Chelsea and this is how you can be world class too."

And maybe he's taken all of this college classroom stuff and tried to apply the Guardiola approach to Blues with a squad of journeymen, half of them bought cheap because they get injured so often, the others because they were the odd one out at their previous club for various reasons. Now he's scratching his beard and wondering why the theory doesn't play out on the pitch like it did in the classroom computer simulations.

He really does seem completely out of his depth managing at this level. Bizarrely, he could even find it easier at a higher level because that's the level he played at. He just seems confused as to why these ideas don't seem to work for this club in this league, but many of us could have told him that it's not just about quality at this level, but even the best championship teams have to roll their sleeves up and grind out the results some of the time, which is about organisation and determination - not just attacking flair.

I think that in the championship teams have to be well organised in defence and are never able to let that drop and go all out attack. They have to play with a little fear because if they don't concentrate defensively for 90 minutes (as a team, all eleven players) they will get punished in this league. That's what I've seen as an observer and that's what many others seem to suggest.

Yes that's fair regarding sticking to what we're trying to do and how things can turn after a poor run. Rooney has had 3 really tough away games and played the only team that have kept pace with Leicester at home.

However, yesterday did leave me concerned, I thought it was quite alarming how poor we were defensively.

There are worrying paralells with Zola, which a lot are finding hard to let go, and that is causing the panic (panic relative to football).
I just want 6 points from the next two home games by hook or by crook.

.
I don't agree that yesterday was a REALLY tough away game.

Sunderland had won 1 out there last 5 games - had debutants as both centre-halves and lost another player during the warm up

David Xavis

Bit I struggle with is how we transform this in January to give him the tools he needs, I’m not actually sure what he needs!

It would appear we need players that can run at 100 MPH for 90 mins plus. Defenders that can attack and defend and goal keeper that can pass like Beckham

Do man City play that way?

Did man u ? Ever ?

Yes, he's got to be given time. Every team we've played since he's been in charge, had a manager who had been in charge, for at least 6 months or more. Patience and support are needed, but some people don't possess those qualities.