I think, with us, it's more of a historical thing.
Like many of a certain age, until i was old enough to travel to away games on my own (about 14) i used to go down Villa one week and Blues the next (even after choosing Blues).
I definitely used to see more Jaaags and sheepskin coats and less bus travel, and hear more middle class accents down Villa Park back then.
I think our background and roots ARE more working class than that of Villa's. We used to have massive number of supporters working at Longbridge etc.
Nowadays of course it isn't necessarily the office jobs and managerial roles which pay the big bucks - there's plenty more money in construction, engineering, manufacturing etc we have people on here, for example, who are vicars, lawyers, estate agents, scientists, highlevel managers, accountants - and i think the class/job role stereotypes have been largely eroded in society.
A lot of this is obviously down to access to University Degrees being opened up, especially by the Blair Govt, which increased employment opportunities to parts of society who were previously excluded.
But, even taking all of the above into consideration, i would still rather see us described in a different way .... "a club where honesty and integrity still counts for more than floss, gloss and thin veneers and where supporters demand a high work ethic from everyone at the club, at every level, as being the absolute bare minimum foundations to build a future on"
e17blueI always thought the North of Birmingham was more White collar and the South Blue.
The number of factories and the amount of manufacturing in the south was surely greater than the north of town.
It was only post war that Birmingham started to build 'estates' in the south that were supposed to give a better quality of life.
A lot of slum housing that stretched from the City to the south was cleared to make way for more modern buildings.
But on the other hand, South Birmingham is surely more affluent than North? Solihull, Harborne, Bourneville, Knowle, Shirley etc.
I don't live in Birmingham but they always seem to be posher areas to me.
North Birmingham has Sutton and that's about it really? Castle Bromwich and Water Orton actually nicer than I imagined when I went through.
Villa are the middle class toff Tory club to me. Full of effing tosspots really.
Sunderland were started by a bunch of teachers, they weren't working class.
Charlton was started at a chip shop, by a bunch of scruffs, later they filled the void left by Woolwich Arsenal and the supporters built up the Valley, by themselves. The addicks (nick name from the chip shop) are a working class club.
In the Victorian era Aston was where the Birmingham men moved when they made it - and where the Birmingham women worked as maids. Sort of Edgbaston.
And of course the wealthier early Vilers would have moved out long ago to Lichfield or Sutton.
Working class club thesedays just means you have remained RUBBISH and the fanbase hasn't attracted any new fans IE Tourists, middle class families, people who are 'new' to football etc EG: Blues, Millwall, Middleboro
foghorn leghornSunderland is a fun one because there was a rival club started up, Sunderland Albion, in protest at Sunderland using Scots professionals, and the two were outright daggers drawn. Sunderland actually withdrew from local competitions rather than be forced to face Albion.Sunderland were started by a bunch of teachers, they weren't working class.
Albion had the advantage because they joined the Football Alliance in 1889 while Sunderland AFC was refused entry to the League because of distance. As the Alliance became Division 2 a couple of years later, that should have given Albion a League place. But...the League was ruthless in trying to dismantle the Alliance, kept picking off its best clubs (Stoke/Forest/Wednesday), and then undercut Albion by giving Sunderland a place in 1890. And Sunderland used its new income stream, and geographical proximity to Scotland, to buy one of the two great squads of the 1890s. No prizes for guessing the outright richest club in the world at the time. But it meant that nobody was interested in watching Albion v Port Vale and Albion quickly went bust.
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DvB
If it helps i was one of those urchins who charged pennies to fans to "look after your car mister" (before the majority of us went into the match leaving a lesser number to watch the cars).... and definitely used to ask for more from Villa fans than from Blues fans.
There was an article a while ago about fans of each clubs average wage and wealth. We were considerably better off than the vile
A sense of entitlement. Wealth. Geography. Meeting fans of the clubs/residents of areas.
Those are my top four.
Non working class clubs from the top two tiers:
Vile
Fulham
Brighton
Palace
Arsenal
Brentford
Bournemouth
Ipswich
Norwich
Bournemouth
Leicester
Watford
Bristol City
Plymouth
QPR
I could offer stereotypical approaches but I can't really expand as i'm actually unsure
Do our middle/upper class fans take offence when we are described as working class?
By the traditional definition i'm working class aspiring to be middle class. That's the point of the crab and the bucket though isnt it?
When I can class myself as being in the middle, i won't take offence to us being described as working class. It's more to do with our roots.
MacAttackA sense of entitlement. Wealth. Geography. Meeting fans of the clubs/residents of areas.
Those are my top four.
Non working class clubs from the top two tiers:
Vile
Fulham
Brighton
Palace
Arsenal
Brentford
Bournemouth
Ipswich
Norwich
Bournemouth
Leicester
Watford
Bristol City
Plymouth
QPR
I could offer stereotypical approaches but I can't really expand as i'm actually unsure
Do our middle/upper class fans take offence when we are described as working class?
By the traditional definition i'm working class aspiring to be middle class. That's the point of the crab and the bucket though isnt it?
When I can class myself as being in the middle, i won't take offence to us being described as working class. It's more to do with our roots.
Having walked around the centre of Plymouth before the game in December I was shocked at how rough it was. Everybody smoking, hardly anybody with teeth - I think areas of the South-West are now meant to be some of the most deprived
NewbsMacAttackA sense of entitlement. Wealth. Geography. Meeting fans of the clubs/residents of areas.
Those are my top four.
Non working class clubs from the top two tiers:
Vile
Fulham
Brighton
Palace
Arsenal
Brentford
Bournemouth
Ipswich
Norwich
Bournemouth
Leicester
Watford
Bristol City
Plymouth
QPR
I could offer stereotypical approaches but I can't really expand as i'm actually unsure
Do our middle/upper class fans take offence when we are described as working class?
By the traditional definition i'm working class aspiring to be middle class. That's the point of the crab and the bucket though isnt it?
When I can class myself as being in the middle, i won't take offence to us being described as working class. It's more to do with our roots.
Having walked around the centre of Plymouth before the game in December I was shocked at how rough it was. Everybody smoking, hardly anybody with teeth - I think areas of the South-West are now meant to be some of the most deprived
yeah PLymouth is a shithole
Watch Turdtowns on YouTube. Most of the country is a shit hole.