SHA Small Heath Alliance

I posted this as reply within another thread - but some of the rumours i've read, and misconceptions etc on Facebook and beyond are ridiculous.

So ... as a new thread to cover current issues/status


The Wheels site is not for sale yet.

The recent outline planning consent application for warehousing, made by the Council itself, is not an application to build the warehousing - the granting of outline planning permission will increase the price that they can put the site on the market for - when that time is right. The OPP gives indication to potential buyers that the Council planning committees are open to the idea of development of the site.
If the council had applied for outline planning permission for the potential to build a stadium complex on the site then that would have been extremely restrictive to others who MAY be interested.
For brief but sketchy explanation of differences and advantages between outline planning permission and detailed planning permission see [urbanistarchitecture.co.uk]

Blues will be the first to be notified when the property is going to go on the market. In advance of it actually hitting the market

Previous agreed written deal that Blues had of "first refusal" is no longer valid as the Commissioners have since been appointed and their legal brief is to raise as much revenue as possible

The potential deal, that both Blues and Birmingham City Council wanted for a straight swap of St Andrews site (massive potential as social housing development with all needed infrastructure already in place) will not be allowed by the Commissioners (probably) as that was also potentially a way of BCC keeping any revenue from a straight sale of the Wheels site out of the clutches of the Government.

To those asking why we would have a 60,000 stadium when we can't fill a 28,000 one. That somewhat misses the point. Main idea previously spoken about and discussed (but nothing actually firm) was for a three tier 60,000 stadium.

15,000 on first tier,
25,000 on middle tier,
20,000 on top tier.

The top tier wouldn't have any season tickets sold at all and no seats would be sold on the top tier for matches until we got to the point where we were attracting over 40,000. The top tier (for football) would have wrap around banners so the actual part of the stadium below (40,000) would be full and the rest of the stadium wouldn't look like empty seats.
For concerts, boxing matches etc then the whole stadium would be opened (60,000)
If we got to the point where we were regularly getting much bigger crowds than 40,000 then the top tier would have season tickets sold

Anything else ?

Oh yes, the interview with the "Friends of Birmingham Wheels" group on Central News that people reported as saying "they want to buy the site" .... are people having a laugh ???
The "Friends of Birmingham Wheels" group are merely making a public request that "whatever" development happens that SOME provision is made to keep some sort of motorsport on the site.
People need to realise just how massive the Wheels site is - even when Birmingham Wheels could have as much space as they wanted they only took and needed a small proportion.

... Medco House - the massive warehousing/factory complex on the edge of the Wheels site - yes, Blues did buy it (through a proxy company, for just under £6 million) even though they haven't publicly confirmed it. It was a sensible purchase if they ever move to the Wheels site - another 6.86 acres on top of the 44 acres of the Wheels site and there is another 14 acres of associated land owned by BCC also there. If Blues don't move to the Wheels site then obviously Medco House won't be needed and will be sold. The purchase of Medco House does not confirm that Blues are moving to the Wheels site, it was merely the sensible thing to do in case they DO move to the Wheels site in future.

If you look at articles from when Brady and Sullivan wanted to build a super casino on the site it confirms the 60 acres total
[en.wikipedia.org]

Current St Andrew's site covers merely 7.5 acres ... about 12.5% of the Wheels site.

Oh, one more thing ...
The Smithfield site ... leaving aside any points about suitability, availability, practicality etc - Blues have made zero requests for info about the site to date.

Hope that helps ... all info correct as per 13/01/24

👍
Interesting and exciting

That's great info Rags, thanks. Bloody exciting times for Blues!

<<< added as an afterthought >>>

Andy Street is massively backing Blues to move to the Wheels site

Any ideas of BCC being anti-Blues are very wide of the mark - there are a lot more Blues fans in positions of power and influence at BCC than there than Villa fans. (Lot of Baggies fans mind)

Tom Wagner is widely seen by most there as "bloody brilliant" but that is tempered by a bit of a giggle and remarks such as "if he pulls off just 10% of the effect he thinks all this will have on the City of Birmingham then it will be excellent - but BCC have current revenue of about £3,764 million - Blues £18 million "

are there any rough timelines on when BCC/Commissioners would be looking to bring the site to market?

Would it be a case of getting the OPP through and then full steam ahead? Or will they have to get OPP through then clear the place and then look to sell it?

Obviously the latter would be a bit longer

are there any rough timelines on when BCC/Commissioners would be looking to bring the site to market?

Would it be a case of getting the OPP through and then full steam ahead? Or will they have to get OPP through then clear the place and then look to sell it?

Obviously the latter would be a bit longer

OPP has about 13 weeks to go through on these large developments ...... (for residential building - not applicable here as there will NEVER be residential buildings on the Wheels site - it is 8 weeks) .... - so i can't envisage anything new happening for 3 months

Remediation works are already under way and on schedule and would continue throughout any sales process

right so best case scenario for us (assuming we want the site) is it comes to market around 3/4 months from now after the OPP comes through?

This as made my day reading this Thank You. Can't wait for match now will be in Digbeth for about 11-30 absolutely buzzing. Even if we don't win today I know we are in safe hands.

right so best case scenario for us (assuming we want the site) is it comes to market around 3/4 months from now after the OPP comes through?

In theory, yes.

If there are any updates then i WILL hear about them - probably before most people employed on a day-to-day basis at St Andrews, and sometimes before people at BCC - and will post as much as i can on here.

*** there are certain things i've agreed not to post publicly (including advanced details of meetings, attendees, specific things discussed at meetings, telling when meetings have taken place etc ... and between whom (and whether BCC were at the meetings or they were with Commercial companies who work on behalf of BCC) - but they are just the "details" rather than ideas and outlines and don't alter the synopsis above ***

cool, thanks for putting that together, really interesting

Cheers for the info Rags, much appreciated, and makes for editing reading.

I think the hope has to be that Wagner et Al investment has a domino effect when people see it working, and the city gets a raft of developments, especially those with a wide draw for getting people in and looking through the shop window as it were.

There was never a straight swap on offer because it would always be 2 separate property transactions and whatever the circumstances of the council there is a need to achieve best consideration for land assets. In addition the wheels site is owned by the council’s general fund, whereas council housing is through the housing revenue account. Both accounts are ring fenced to stop any manipulation of funding sources, it’s surprising that even some quite senior officials struggle to understand this. The issues with the finances at the council are connected with the general fund. There has been definite interest in some sort of deal for the Wheels site in whatever form. Personally I don’t see the commissioners being an issue because the need to achieve best consideration for the wheels site is unchanged. A bigger issue is that the council is losing a lot of senior staff that have been involved in this.

The other aspect that might change things somewhat is a change of Government. The commissioners that are in at the moment will be charged with getting ‘best value’ out of any sale, but that notion is infinitely manipualable beyond a simple headline value. A sympathetic government (one more sympathetic to BCC than the current government) would possibly be more prepared to listen to the longer term and less immediate long term benefits a BCFC purchase could bring? I’m sure that they (and their development partners….) are more than clever enough to project this.

There was never a straight swap on offer because it would always be 2 separate property transactions and whatever the circumstances of the council there is a need to achieve best consideration for land assets. In addition the wheels site is owned by the council’s general fund, whereas council housing is through the housing revenue account. Both accounts are ring fenced to stop any manipulation of funding sources, it’s surprising that even some quite senior officials struggle to understand this. The issues with the finances at the council are connected with the general fund. There has been definite interest in some sort of deal for the Wheels site in whatever form. Personally I don’t see the commissioners being an issue because the need to achieve best consideration for the wheels site is unchanged. A bigger issue is that the council is losing a lot of senior staff that have been involved in this.

Hi there ..

"it’s surprising that even some quite senior officials struggle to understand this"

Yes... and even "less than senior" officials.

As you probably know (based on the fact that your post shows knowledge), that exact scenario was being openly discussed unofficially across BCC as "the ideal" but i don't think anyone had ever sat down and thought it through in terms of practicalities and exactly how it was possible.

Something else no-one there seems to quite know the reasoning behind ... which you might ... do you know why any Wheels Site development was in the Bordesley Park Area Action Plan back in 2020 and then the remediation works seemed to be covered elsewhere ... and yet the outline planning permission puts it all back into the Bordesley Park Area Action Plan ?


Also .. in your post from 17th Dec you said

"One aspect from the apparent deal was to swap the Wheels site at least in part for the St Andrews site which would then be used for Council Housing. I found earlier that the commissioners are to stop the Council house building programme in Birmingham. Apparently there is an article in the mail about this. So it looks like that component of the deal will fall down. Of course it doesn’t stop the club selling the site to someone else"

Do you know if that "stop" on the Council House Building programme ever came to fruition ? -- i only ever heard it as a rumour

Yeah but the wheels site is miles from St Andrews and no buses Tom.