RagsI can remember saying on the day that it happened, it wasn't the removal of Eustace that particularly bothered me (although I wouldn't have done it at that time), it was the replacement.
Replace Eustace with Mowbray (or someone similar) and I don't think anywhere near so many people would be so vexed by it.
Maybe not even you.
Well Mowbray wasn't available at the time obviously and Knighthead wouldn't have know that he would EVER be available ..... but in general, yes. With the safey net of points on the board anyone who was a definite improvement would have been acceptable i suppose
The annoying thing is that Rooney wasn't a knee jerk reaction (the sort when a manager HAS to be sacked and you have to get a replcement from whatevers available). It looks like Rooney was intended to come here for months and months and months ..... a long period to think about it and look at his managerial career. What on earth did they see in him that made them think he was a good fit for Blues ?
We said this at the time didn't we.
If Eustace had resigned all of a sudden then you could sort of accept it (I still think it would've have been an unecessary gamble), but the fact they had time to plan it does have me slightly concerned going forward.
Oh, and Mowbray may well have been available. Everyone is available all of the time in this business.
Rags"unless you're arguing that it was chance he was sacked by Sunderland and therefore was made available during Rooney's tenure, in which case, fair enough."
That's exaactly what i'm sort of saying.
If they had identified Mowbray a long time in advance and waited for him (or someone like him) to become available and then sacked Eustace then all well and good. A definite improvement.
By "more by luck than judgement we end up with Mowbray" i actually meant the luck that he was available when Rooney had got to the point of having to be curtailed.
That's very much fair enough yeah.
I also agree that as much as I can come up with flimsy reasons to go after Rooney as manager (i.e. did solid with Derby in horrendous circumstances, did fine with DC also in a less than ideal circumstance), I would like to understand the club's logic. I'm sure we'll never find out, but I would love to know, because I can't see anything concrete. I would hope they had sound logic/reasoning, have given their data driven approach they've made noise about adopting this year, and the few months they had to assess the right man for the job. A cynic would make the link to Cook and his agent, but surely he would've had to get at least Gardner on board too if not Wagner, and you'd like to think that appropriate justification would've been requested.
If not, that's a fundamental gap that I hope we've fixed now rather than just recruiting managers we know. Particularly if we go down to league one and Mowbray doesn't return, we're going to have to properly assess potential managers. There's not many obvious candidates.
Yes, because if TM doesn't come back and we DO get relegated, we need to find a manager from somewhere who can build a team in Laugue 1 that is good enough for the core of it to then get us promoted from both League 1 AND then the Championship and perhaps then stay with us through to the Premiership
RagsI can remember saying on the day that it happened, it wasn't the removal of Eustace that particularly bothered me (although I wouldn't have done it at that time), it was the replacement.
Replace Eustace with Mowbray (or someone similar) and I don't think anywhere near so many people would be so vexed by it.
Maybe not even you.
Well Mowbray wasn't available at the time obviously and Knighthead wouldn't have know that he would EVER be available ..... but in general, yes. With the safey net of points on the board anyone who was a definite improvement would have been acceptable i suppose
The annoying thing is that Rooney wasn't a knee jerk reaction (the sort when a manager HAS to be sacked and you have to get a replcement from whatevers available). It looks like Rooney was intended to come here for months and months and months ..... a long period to think about it and look at his managerial career. What on earth did they see in him that made them think he was a good fit for Blues ?
We said this at the time didn't we.
If Eustace had resigned all of a sudden then you could sort of accept it (I still think it would've have been an unecessary gamble), but the fact they had time to plan it does have me slightly concerned going forward.
Oh, and Mowbray may well have been available. Everyone is available all of the time in this business.
Yes ... or look at it another way ... if Eustace was approached and accepted a Premiership job, and Rooney wasn't lined up for us on the back burner, the situation would have been us trying to find a new manager when we were 6th the in the table with great new owners etc ... an attractive proposition to most managers, and perhaps even to Mowbray
In many ways, all roads of blame lead to Rooney's incompetance being the culprit
I need something clarified. Are you saying sacking Eustace and appointing Rooney was a mistake?
I need something clarified. Are you saying sacking Eustace and appointing Rooney was a mistake?
Thought hadn't crossed my mind ... i'll put some time aside and ruminate on it
Rab C Nesbittbluer than bluesWeaker squad some say, but Trusty would be our best centre half. Chong our best wide player and Hannibal better than plenty of our midfielders. Then there’s Khadra to throw into the mixEl Mayorbluer than bluesEl Mayorbluer than bluesMy Blue HeavenSacking Eustace was never the problem, the blow they replaced him with was.
Had Mowbray not fallen ill we’d be 100% safe by now.
It’s a effing shambles really.
It's both, IMO.
We wouldn't have gone down under JE; he had a better squad than the previous one he kept us up comfortably with. Those at the top tried to rush progress and have ended up dragging us backwards.
Keeping this post on the off chance Blackburn go down instead of us.
That's irrelevant, IMO. He's stepped into a team at Blackburn that is used to playing high tempo, front-footed attacking football. At us, he cultivated a cautious, defensive, low-risk team, and the players signed in the summer suited that style.
It's apples and oranges, frankly.
Sounds like you’re making excuses to me.
It what way?
My arguement was based on sound logic, IMO. He kept us up last year with a weaker squad than this year. He was 6th when he was fired. I'd say given those facts that it was highly likely that we wouldn't have gone down under him. What he does at Blackburn is irrelevant because it's a completely different situation.
Of course this season we have Buchanan, to Trusty could play at CB. I'm not sure I would take Chong over Miyoshi - not much between them as good footballers but more end product from Miyoshi and we also added Dembele on the wing. I definitely wouldn't take Khadra over Stansfield. Hannibal I would have as an upgrade on the start of the season midfield.
I think we had a squad at the start of the season that was better set up for how Eustace wanted to play, over all.
MJD I think a lot opinion reckon that Liam Rosenoir was the brains of outfit at Derby and I think subsequent event have proved this was the case he has done a wonderful job at Hull City
WaggehLet's be honest, first and foremost they brought Rooney in for potential revenue and exposure.
The most optimistic amongst us didn't expect him to be paticularly great. But I also don't think anyone expected him to be quite so awful. After all he did appear to have done an ok job at Derby.
It was a mistake and it was quickly sorted. I can't really hold it against the board. They tried something, it didn't work.
You’re missing the fact that Rooney’s agent Paul Stretford and Garry Cook are very chummy. There was a touch of nepotism in the hiring but that’s football I guess. John o’Shea is another from that circle and it’s interesting how quickly he went too.
I don’t have any problem with people pointing out the facts, happens a lot more when you live out of Birmingham - I am up in Leeds and get it at least once a week.
My response back is as others have said, I just point out that Eustace wasn’t the man the board wanted to take us forward and statistically unlikely to achieve what they want.
However, and I know this is not allowed to be said because of the return of hot water and FEA-propaganda, the board/CEO’s timing of when to do it was appalling and the replacement they hired even worse. This is where the argument of blaming years of underinvestment falls down - they knew the limitations of the squad and lack of available funds this season. So why make a decision when they did? As Mayor points out - Rooney was their man regardless and not for football reasons. If this was the previous mob making this decision, the Kop Car Park would be a war zone.
Sacking Eustace once safe, after a bad run of form or at the end of the season would have been entirely justifiable - whereas for me, the way they’ve acted this season, despite big plans and promises, is indefensible.
is indefensible.
So what do you want to happen to them?
Tandyis indefensible.
So what do you want to happen to them?
Nothing, other than if we go down a frank admission they got it wrong and an understanding that on the football side of things, they need to be better.
Cook will know he can’t afford to do that again - both financially for the club and professionally for himself.
Maybe I’m just overly sceptical but they can have all the plans they like and make all the commercial progress as we have seen, but they can’t make poor footballing decisions like they had this season again.
TinaTractorTandyis indefensible.
So what do you want to happen to them?
Nothing, other than if we go down a frank admission they got it wrong and an understanding that on the football side of things, they need to be better.
Cook will know he can’t afford to do that again - both financially for the club and professionally for himself.
Maybe I’m just overly sceptical but they can have all the plans they like and make all the commercial progress as we have seen, but they can’t make poor footballing decisions like they had this season again.
They have said they got it wrong; they admitted the timing was poor and that they shouldn’t have interrupted the forward momentum we had. They know they need to get it right.
Not sure what else you want mate.
Our form last season and Johns record at Blackburn tell me it was the right decision. I didn’t think so at the time but I do now.
Appointing Rooney was clearly a buzzkill and the same has happened with getting Rowett and Robinson in.
For all the overall good work and promise someone is proving to be very adept at splitting the fanbase. I don’t think that will be accepted for too much longer by the money men.
El MayorTinaTractorTandyis indefensible.
So what do you want to happen to them?
Nothing, other than if we go down a frank admission they got it wrong and an understanding that on the football side of things, they need to be better.
Cook will know he can’t afford to do that again - both financially for the club and professionally for himself.
Maybe I’m just overly sceptical but they can have all the plans they like and make all the commercial progress as we have seen, but they can’t make poor footballing decisions like they had this season again.
They have said they got it wrong; they admitted the timing was poor and that they shouldn’t have interrupted the forward momentum we had. They know they need to get it right.
Not sure what else you want mate.
I don’t want anything else, although his actual words were:
"We made one decision that, if we were to go back in time we wouldn't have made, In the context of having made thousands of decisions for the club this season, we made one decision [in sacking Eustace] that wasn't perfect.“
I’d argue it was a long way off being perfect and the decision making process to get there has hopefully been properly scrutinised.
Similarly, I’m not all aboard the hype train given they’ve probably achieved in their first season what 13 years of mismanagement by the assorted crooks previously in charge haven’t been able to. If they don’t then, I’ll be more comfortable in chalking it up as ‘learning’ and moving on.