The numbers of NFL players that thank god every time they are interviewed is huge. Its an interesting thought whether that belief system helps them in what is a very tough sport and one that is exceedingly hard to get to NFL level in. You have to have ultimate belief in yourself to go through all that. The US is a very different society mind, in some ways I think they maybe have to show that side to progress in certain states.
Or perhaps West Dubuque 2nd Church of Christ
Pastor Jim and Mary sue will sort him out
Wow .... i could write you 30 pages on stoicism to answer that
If it took you past the game Saturday, and gave us a break from your Rooney stuff, crack on mate
Le ModSanchez was a lovely player, who probably played for us at the wrong time, under the wrong manager, in the wrong style of football, if he was bouncing passes off Laird, Stansfield and Miyoshi he'd have had a much better time, instead if was the likes of Gardner, Sunjic and Juke.
Despite someone who we didn't see on the pitch as much as hoped, he's one of my favourite players of recent years at Blues. Absolutely agree that he played for us at the wrong time.
Crowley was undoubtedly a good player but perhaps wasn't quite at the level to be played in his favoured position, as he is at Notts County, in a good footballing team. I think he's showing he probably always was a League One standard player. His goal last weekend was a beauty.
RagsIf you don't have supreme self-confidence, almpst tp the point of arrogance, then you can never be a supreme/successful athlete of any sort. Having confidence in yourself, whether or not you are religious, is what counts ... in my opinion
I've cherry-picked one of your statement (the first snetence above). Maybe it's correct, but I suspect that it isn't - in particular the part about arrogance.
Where I'm coming from is that the type of confidence involved in excelling is a complex topic in itself and we are discussing it in the context of what Le Mod says (who you were replying to) which was -
Le ModI’ve often wondered if being religious is an advantage in sport, having a genuine belief that a superpower is helping you must be quite powerful, obviously there are loads of factors as to why a team does well but I wonder if it’s helped the likes of Brazil, Argentina over the years, I guess Germany would perhaps not support that notion
I can my make my point by inventing two hypothetical examples and asking - which of these players with differing types of confidence do you believe will perform better (ignoring the fact that there are many unknown variables which would typically complicate the question) -
player A) has unshakeable belief in religion/god etc and due to this feels that he can achieve great things as a player and compete with the best, almost to the point of arrogance
player B) has unshakeable belief in himself that he is a great player and can compete with the best purely because of what he witnesses about his own performance in training and playing games and because he knows that he has put in the requisite amount of training and practice to be that good
My point is that there are many types of confidence and many ways to build it, but for me personally there is no better form of confidence than one based upon observable reality - IE - pretty much the opposite of arrogance or faith, but based on meticulous preparation, practice and testing of the outcome.
IE if you know you are very good at something becuase you have prepared/trained and then tested yourself and found that you have achieved those goals and actually are very good, then that confidence (I believe) is better than most other types and most times I would back that type of person against someone who was arrogantly confident or confident because they believed that an unprovably-real force was on their side/assisting them/watching over them etc.
Yeah, I'd agree with most of that, was just posing the question as it's something I've pondered and not seen discussed on here.
On the subject of different types of confidence, at that level I'd expect that the vast majority of players to have traits of (A) through years of training etc, so if two players have that, and one has the extra layer of also believing that some kind of divine being is assisting helping them too, I wonder if that's an edge
There was an example of Paul Merson in a doc I watched recently, Hoddle was into all the faith healing and spirituality etc, and just before the shootout against Argentina he goes up to Merson, puts his hand on his chest and says "You will score"
Merson says that all his nerves went away, because he thought it was written, or some shite like that, basically he admitted that at the time he was really dim and he basically thought "Oh great, I'm scoring then" (I mean he is still dim but yanno what I mean)
Now something like that wouldn't work on me, but it did on him. I just find the whole thing interesting.
I totally agree that it's interesting not least because the topic applies to all of us who want to achieve anything that requires confidence, sporting or not - and I appreciate you seeding this discussion.
But where I think it gets very complicated is when you refer to religious faith as 'an extra layer'. Some people strongly believe that it is precisely that - IE an advantage gained by having extra. But if you approach it from the opposing perspective, then there are others who actually see it as a handicap.
It's not easy to explain the difference, but I'll try. Let's say (hypothetically) confidence is like petrol and we all have a similarly sized confidence tank (IE like a petrol tank) which can only hold so much confidence (of course, the underlying assumption about similar sized tank is debatable in itself - is my max confidence level less/greater than yours or vice-versa?) For the purpose of this thinking experiment, let's assume that they are the same.
Person A has a full tank comprising 90% evidence-based confidence and 10% belief-based/faith-based (the 'extra layer')
Person B has a full tank too comprising 100% evidence-based confidence.
Who do you back to out-perform the other, when forced to choose? As you can see, in this hypothetical example it's not an extra layer, it's the same amount but comprising confidence derived from differing sources. In other words, to squeeze in the 10% you have to have less evidence-based confidence to make room for it.
To picture this in another way, when player A is praying before the game, player B might be using that time to size up his opponents, eyeball and intimidate them (haka style), remind himself mentally how good he is in training, planning his first movements and looking at the pitch to familiarise himself with his surroundings etc. Who has the advantage? It's hard to say, but there is not evidence to suggest that religious belief offers anything extra, anything that player B can't access by using his mind in other ways. But one key difference is that one person is getting X% of their confidence from a source which cannot be proven to exist, whereas the other guy can base all of his confidence on what he witnesses with his own eyes about his own body/performance - but that only applies if the faith isn't actually somehow an extra layer.
If confidence is like petrol, in your example, I completely concur, though I've always wondered if there's a healthy level of delusion in sport and what that must feel like, though I'll never have it cause you can't force yourself to believe something that you don't.
It's not really an answerable question, but interesting none the less, cheers
Le ModIf confidence is like petrol, in your example, I completely concur, though I've always wondered if there's a healthy level of delusion in sport and what that must feel like, though I'll never have it cause you can't force yourself to believe something that you don't.
It's not really an answerable question, but interesting none the less, cheers
It gets even more interesting when you apply it to extreme sports (where death is a definite risk) or soldiers in combat - because you can have the same argument but you have to also consider that if somebody doesn't fear death and perhaps even welcomes it, does that make them more or less capable in terms of confidence and thus overall 'score'/performance? Not trying to seed a debate on that little Pandora's box, but thought it worth throwing in! Likewise, cheers! 🍺
TarquinIf so, surely god is irrelevant.AS Nick Cave said, he don't believe in an interventional God.
philly_bluenoseIf so, surely god is irrelevant.
it depends on your belief of what "God" is. Maybe God is as simple as being the laws of physics that govern the universe, maybe God is simply the power behind whatever the Big Bang was.
WR BlueLe ModIf confidence is like petrol, in your example, I completely concur, though I've always wondered if there's a healthy level of delusion in sport and what that must feel like, though I'll never have it cause you can't force yourself to believe something that you don't.
It's not really an answerable question, but interesting none the less, cheers
It gets even more interesting when you apply it to extreme sports (where death is a definite risk) or soldiers in combat - because you can have the same argument but you have to also consider that if somebody doesn't fear death and perhaps even welcomes it, does that make them more or less capable in terms of confidence and thus overall 'score'/performance? Not trying to seed a debate on that little Pandora's box, but thought it worth throwing in! Likewise, cheers! 🍺
It’s interesting you talk about extreme sports. During lockdown I got into watching Parkour on YouTube, and I watched “Roof Culture Asia”, a film made by a British parkour group.
They talked about mental challenges of jumps at heights where the consequence was death, and how the only way they could do them was the unshakeable knowledge that they would not fail; because they knew they could do it 1000 times out of a 1000 at a low level, they knew they could do it 25 storeys up.
I always thought that kind of sport relied on adrenaline but it’s actually the opposite; utter calmness and belief is needed.
The film was on Amazon Prime, would recommend it.
There was one of those celebs do daft things for good causes on telly a bit back. They trained to do hire wire walking. I lost interest pretty quick but the guy training em, was a pretty cool dude, n a par with the French nutter who frolicked between the twin towers.
I wouldn’t say it’s worth a watch, it’s pretty tedious, with far too much emoting, but if you like that sorta fing.
[www.theguardian.com]
They talked about mental challenges of jumps at heights where the consequence was death, and how the only way they could do them was the unshakeable knowledge that they would not fail; because they knew they could do it 1000 times out of a 1000 at a low level, they knew they could do it 25 storeys up.
I always thought that kind of sport relied on adrenaline but it’s actually the opposite; utter calmness and belief is needed.
Watching those clips makes me feel sick, but that does make sense, and the logic is sound, must take elite mental fortitude to ensure that the logic overrides the fear that your body is probably naturally trying to induce.
I shit myself walking over the bridge at Selfridge's even though it has screens up either side.