This whole situation is rapidly becoming two tribes though. Neither of us is 100% right but results are now just increasing our polarised view
The JE messiah/Hate Rooney from day 1 brigade - They are increasing their smugness game by game that this is just like Zola, Blues trying to change to a style that they cannot play with a manager who cannot implement but continues stubbornly. They can see the writing on the wall and, not all them, but a good majority seem to take some perverse pleasure in our defeats because it gives them some moral high-ground.
The Rooney is alright, I can see the bigger picture club - See the bright spot in everything because those days of competing in the championship and playing good football and getting results in sufficient numbers to get promotion are just a little around the corner, just maybe not next week or even this season. Who cares if we conceded 4, because we have 100 shots on goal last night? Optimism, maybe even a fear that criticism may scare the owners off before they have even started "The Project"
We so need wins and clean sheets enough to bring the tribes back to some centre ground.
6 shots on target, the other 20 never troubled their keeper.
Nikola ZigicWhy people are ignoring the ambition of Knighthead and the path they've put us on, just to focus on a handful of games on the pitch, well it baffles me..
I highly doubt anyone is against Knighthead. But it's perfectly OK to be supportive of them, and also think they've made a massive cockup by appointing world class wayne.
Absolutely right - and that's exactly what Cook was asking us to do - challenge, question, ask for evidence, don't accept mediocrity and don't be "yes men" .......... all my thoughts were in my replay to Bob when he was giving up hope
I think you should reconsider
1.. Knighthead is as good a "dream come true" as we are likely to get. Whilst others may be more impressed with superficial (but welcome and important) changes, for me the fact that we are now untangled from the previous ownership model is the most essential part. Whilst it was a work of genius (something only a very few on here appreciate) and it may, as mayor often points out, have been the thing that saved us from administration over the last ten years, it was also a barrier to new ownership and investment.
2.. I don't think (and have never thought) that Knighthead are here for the short-term. hopefully by hearing that enforced repeatedly by Wagner the doubters will ease off their criticism of the owners (Moxley and Simon Jordan especially - this means you).
3.. Ours is a TINY business. It may be very high profile but we only have a revenue of about £18 million a year, i think) -- i pay out DOUBLE that PER MONTH to contractors where i work. Blues probably struggle to be in the top 40 clubs in the country in terms of revenue - and we lose an absolute fortune as a %. We should be grateful and thankful that someone is prepared to appoint very talented and motivated (and very highly paid) people with the ambition to drag us up from being a basket case (not due to previous owners alone) to somewhere where we compete with clubs in football's elite. Even the bloody Vile have an annual revenue ten times ours, and they access the same demographic and geographic areas
4.. Yes, it's very corporate and very Americanised - but most large businesses are these days, the one i work for is - but it's up to us, the fans, to adapt and get used to that. I mean, who the feck else would have us AND have access to the funds we need
5.. linked to 4 ... there will be other things we don't like too that feel "unBlues". Probably a Peaky Blinders theme park feel - perhaps special guest appearances - things done solely for social media hits - but to get where we want to get, these days, there isn't much choice - you sell your soul to the Corporate Devil and ride on that wave. Is it the destination that's the over-riding factor or the fact that the journey may not be the most picturesque ?
6.. Then there were some things that Cook said last night that hinted at things i'd emailed him about (i can be polite and eloquent when i want to be) and he'd emailed me about (or perhaps he got someone to email on his behalf) ... and i know that i'm not the only person (by a long way) he has had correspondence with.
a) Yes, in hindsight there was no need for the words used in the statement regarding JE's dismissal - and there was no need for him to sound so ungracious. He believes that his second statement (and Wagner admitting that Knighthead wouldn't have bought Blues if it wasn't for JE keeping us up last season) have righted that. I'm not in full agreement
b) but i am in agreement with the view that it's their club, their investment and their choice to employ whoever they want and whoever they think will be best for the club in the long run.... and the way they think that the club will get to where they want it to get is investment, investment, investment.... and the effects on investment will always form part of all decisions they make
c) Cook is very clear that he doesn't like mediocrity, he expects everything to be a step in the direction of being world class and doesn't like "yes men". He is open to criticism (that doesn't mean abuse and booing which i'm also dead against) and will always take on board suggestions and ideas that clash with his own. In fact he agrees that questioning, doubting and searching for evidential proof is the way that all major companies (and societies) grow - in the same way that he questions everything, and every working practice, he has walked into at Blues.
As i said last night,
" as CEO he's the public face of the business and he acts similarly to many of the better CEOs i've worked for. It's a lot about pushing ambition, excellence, positivity, teamwork, and setting the goal and teaching the vision and putting a team in place to pass that vision and ambition through his team leaders or departmental managers all the way through the business. For me he's about as good as it gets in British football as a CEO ...."
So, to repeat myself, i think you should reconsider. We know here we want to be, and in the world as it is today, we have to accept that there will be things and decisions that we may not agree with but i think that fans are correct to trust Knighthead and that if we want to get to "that place" then we, as individuals, have to accept that things are being done by Knighthead for the right reasons (in their belief) and for the long term good of the club.
RasputinAgree with this.Nikola ZigicWhy people are ignoring the ambition of Knighthead and the path they've put us on, just to focus on a handful of games on the pitch, well it baffles me..
I highly doubt anyone is against Knighthead. But it's perfectly OK to be supportive of them, and also think they've made a massive cockup by appointing world class wayne.
Whilst I am obviously over the moon with what’s happening behind the scenes and where Knightsbridge intend to take us I can’t accept what has happened on the pitch this season.
After a sacking nobody wanted and an appointment nobody wanted we find ourselves going from a playoff position to what looks like another relegation battle on current form.
All the optimism of this no fear football that will take time to implement is all a bit pie in the sky.
It just looks reckless to me.
And even if the transition into a new style was a good idea who’s to say Rooney is the right man to get us playing that way.He certainly doesn’t have the credentials to convince me.
So fully behind Wagner to take us to the next level in the long term but can’t get into the football side of things atm as it just winds me up.
Rooney may not be the man but it looks they want the style to stay. That’s the point of doing it. And they think it’s worth it over a period of 5-10 years. Good on them.
Not aimed at you mate but over the years we’ve had calls for this repeatedly-
Blues fans- We need new owners that change the ethos of the club. We need a style, an identity, a way of playing that we stick to. Like Brentford or Brighton do, regardless of who is manager/head coach.
New owners- we are trying to play in a way which will be replicated through all age groups and women’s team, which will help us be more successful than the style we’ve adopted for several unsuccessful years.
Blues fans again- we want to play how we have for the last few years. Gerrit forward and stop this tappy tippying, tic tacs stuff.
Rab C NesbittRooney may not be the man but it looks they want the style to stay. That’s the point of doing it. And they think it’s worth it over a period of 5-10 years. Good on them.
Not aimed at you mate but over the years we’ve had calls for this repeatedly-
Blues fans- We need new owners that change the ethos of the club. We need a style, an identity, a way of playing that we stick to. Like Brentford or Brighton do, regardless of who is manager/head coach.
New owners- we are trying to play in a way which will be replicated through all age groups and women’s team, which will help us be more successful than the style we’ve adopted for several unsuccessful years.
Blues fans again- we want to play how we have for the last few years. Gerrit forward and stop this tappy tippying, tic tacs stuff.
You'll do for me.
Rab C NesbittRooney may not be the man but it looks they want the style to stay. That’s the point of doing it. And they think it’s worth it over a period of 5-10 years. Good on them.
Not aimed at you mate but over the years we’ve had calls for this repeatedly-
Blues fans- We need new owners that change the ethos of the club. We need a style, an identity, a way of playing that we stick to. Like Brentford or Brighton do, regardless of who is manager/head coach.
New owners- we are trying to play in a way which will be replicated through all age groups and women’s team, which will help us be more successful than the style we’ve adopted for several unsuccessful years.
Blues fans again- we want to play how we have for the last few years. Gerrit forward and stop this tappy tippying, tic tacs stuff.
👏👏👏
Rab C NesbittRooney may not be the man but it looks they want the style to stay. That’s the point of doing it. And they think it’s worth it over a period of 5-10 years. Good on them.
Not aimed at you mate but over the years we’ve had calls for this repeatedly-
Blues fans- We need new owners that change the ethos of the club. We need a style, an identity, a way of playing that we stick to. Like Brentford or Brighton do, regardless of who is manager/head coach.
New owners- we are trying to play in a way which will be replicated through all age groups and women’s team, which will help us be more successful than the style we’ve adopted for several unsuccessful years.
Blues fans again- we want to play how we have for the last few years. Gerrit forward and stop this tappy tippying, tic tacs stuff.
👏👏👏
Agree ... but bizarrely the stats over the last 7 matches - as was pointed out in the Athletic stats .. we've played more long balls as a % under Rooney than under "that other bloke"
GBBlueThis whole situation is rapidly becoming two tribes though. Neither of us is 100% right but results are now just increasing our polarised view
The JE messiah/Hate Rooney from day 1 brigade - They are increasing their smugness game by game that this is just like Zola, Blues trying to change to a style that they cannot play with a manager who cannot implement but continues stubbornly. They can see the writing on the wall and, not all them, but a good majority seem to take some perverse pleasure in our defeats because it gives them some moral high-ground.
The Rooney is alright, I can see the bigger picture club - See the bright spot in everything because those days of competing in the championship and playing good football and getting results in sufficient numbers to get promotion are just a little around the corner, just maybe not next week or even this season. Who cares if we conceded 4, because we have 100 shots on goal last night? Optimism, maybe even a fear that criticism may scare the owners off before they have even started "The Project"
We so need wins and clean sheets enough to bring the tribes back to some centre ground.
I'm a bit torn, as someone who didn't really fancy Rooney. You can definitely 'see what he's trying to do', it was pretty entertaining, best team for a lot of the game and we could have scored more, but I worry the defensive fragility is an inbuilt feature of this way of playing rather than just individual mistakes. And we don't seem clinical enough at the other end with the current squad. Still in the 'see what happens' camp.
NB. almost no-one thinks JE was the messiah. He was solid enough, and the question is just whether there was any point and whether Rooney is an upgrade. (In any case, I'm not sure the Second Coming would really cut it as a manager - He died for our sins nearly 1900 years before football was invented so won't be acquainted with the high press and keepers being comfortable with the ball. And would He come anyway? I reckon He'd fancy the Auld Firm to settle a few scores over transubstantiation and the like.)
I do get that a change in style is what is needed.
But don’t you think it’s all a bit gung-ho and reckless to get an unproven manager to just come in and change it so quickly without probably having the resources to implement it.
Wouldn’t a softer approach been more beneficial or at least trying to change it after a transfer window in which you could get the right types in?.
Like I say not moaning about what these guys are doing for our club but it’s a bit of a car crash on the pitch for me.
Rab C NesbittRooney may not be the man but it looks they want the style to stay. That’s the point of doing it. And they think it’s worth it over a period of 5-10 years. Good on them.
Not aimed at you mate but over the years we’ve had calls for this repeatedly-
Blues fans- We need new owners that change the ethos of the club. We need a style, an identity, a way of playing that we stick to. Like Brentford or Brighton do, regardless of who is manager/head coach.
New owners- we are trying to play in a way which will be replicated through all age groups and women’s team, which will help us be more successful than the style we’ve adopted for several unsuccessful years.
Blues fans again- we want to play how we have for the last few years. Gerrit forward and stop this tappy tippying, tic tacs stuff.
I reckon this bit is really key to some of scepticism/animosity though. If you're setting up this kind of system, you expect a managerial appointment who's tearing up the Danish Superliga who you've never heard of, and then they eventually get replaced another guy who's tearing up the Danish Superliga who you've never heard of, or by a very progressive guy who retired at 23 and worked his way up through the age groups and is a reputed tactical genius with a laptop. The last sort of appointment you expect is a high profile ex-player.
Yeah I do get that. But implementing the style asap is fine by me. And I’ll support whoever is in charge of doing it
All roads eventually lead to Graham Potter anyway.
Rab C NesbittRooney may not be the man but it looks they want the style to stay. That’s the point of doing it. And they think it’s worth it over a period of 5-10 years. Good on them.
Not aimed at you mate but over the years we’ve had calls for this repeatedly-
Blues fans- We need new owners that change the ethos of the club. We need a style, an identity, a way of playing that we stick to. Like Brentford or Brighton do, regardless of who is manager/head coach.
New owners- we are trying to play in a way which will be replicated through all age groups and women’s team, which will help us be more successful than the style we’ve adopted for several unsuccessful years.
Blues fans again- we want to play how we have for the last few years. Gerrit forward and stop this tappy tippying, tic tacs stuff.
I reckon this bit is really key to some of scepticism/animosity though. If you're setting up this kind of system, you expect a managerial appointment who's tearing up the Danish Superliga who you've never heard of, and then they eventually get replaced another guy who's tearing up the Danish Superliga who you've never heard of, or by a very progressive guy who retired at 23 and worked his way up through the age groups and is a reputed tactical genius with a laptop. The last sort of appointment you expect is a high profile ex-player.
Shoot me down, skin me and dip me in salt - but Villa are doing rather well playing good transition football
... and out of the teams promoted Luton are doing the best (at the moment) and they play transitions
David XavisAll roads eventually lead to Graham Potter anyway.
I'm pretty certain (other than the Villa connection maybe) that if it had been Potter there'd have been very little of the noise there's been.
RagsRab C NesbittRooney may not be the man but it looks they want the style to stay. That’s the point of doing it. And they think it’s worth it over a period of 5-10 years. Good on them.
Not aimed at you mate but over the years we’ve had calls for this repeatedly-
Blues fans- We need new owners that change the ethos of the club. We need a style, an identity, a way of playing that we stick to. Like Brentford or Brighton do, regardless of who is manager/head coach.
New owners- we are trying to play in a way which will be replicated through all age groups and women’s team, which will help us be more successful than the style we’ve adopted for several unsuccessful years.
Blues fans again- we want to play how we have for the last few years. Gerrit forward and stop this tappy tippying, tic tacs stuff.
I reckon this bit is really key to some of scepticism/animosity though. If you're setting up this kind of system, you expect a managerial appointment who's tearing up the Danish Superliga who you've never heard of, and then they eventually get replaced another guy who's tearing up the Danish Superliga who you've never heard of, or by a very progressive guy who retired at 23 and worked his way up through the age groups and is a reputed tactical genius with a laptop. The last sort of appointment you expect is a high profile ex-player.
Shoot me down, skin me and dip me in salt - but Villa are doing rather well playing good transition football
... and out of the teams promoted Luton are doing the best (at the moment) and they play transitions
Oh yes, I'm far from convinced it's the only way, and maybe counter-productive if you don't have the best players in your league. I've said before on here, I worry people mix up correlation with causation on the high possession % = high league table position thing. Each team needs to work out the best way to play for them. In recent games we've seen Hull, Wednesday and Blackburn all look a bit uncomfortable playing possession.