If someone dives in front of a moving car is it the driver’s fault ?
Here are the laws of the game from theFA.com [www.thefa.com]
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Direct and indirect free kicks and penalty kicks can only be awarded for offences committed when the ball is in play.
1. Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
** charges
** jumps at
** kicks or attempts to kick
** pushes
** strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
** tackles or challenges
** trips or attempts to trip
If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.
Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
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Yesterday:
Phillips wasn't carded so it wasn't reckless.
He wasn't sent off, so he didn't use excessive force.
Which leaves careless. Gordon came in from behind and didn't play the ball, so Phillips can't be accused of a lack of either attention or consideration or carelessness.
Gordon has attemted to hook Phillips' leg from behind to stop him playing the ball OR Gordon had deliberately tried to prevent the player from playing the ball without himself being in control of the ball.
This is why you can't claim to be shielding a ball out of play etc when you obstruct someone 10 yards or so from the ball - because you aren't in control of the ball. At no point was Gordon "in control" of that ball as an outstrethed leg ploked down in front of another player's leg isn't deemed as being in control of the ball ...
... it is clearly an attempt by Gordon to trip, OR an attempt by Gordon to stop an opponent playing the ball
So, based on the laws of the game it is either
a direct free kick awarded to Phillips because Gordon's actions are deemed to be a trip or an attempted trip
or more likely
an indirect free kick awarded to Phillips
Here are the rules on indirect free-kicks
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2. Indirect Free Kick
An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
** plays in a dangerous manner
** impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
** is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s) or other verbal offences
** prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
** initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law, whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands; the goalkeeper is penalised if responsible for initiating the deliberate trick
** commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player
PLAYING IN A DANGEROUS MANNER
Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.
A scissors or bicycle kick is permissible provided that it is not dangerous to an opponent.
IMPEDING THE PROGRESS OF AN OPPONENT WITHOUT CONTACT
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.
A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.
NOTE ... Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.
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So based on the rules/laws ... and without even bringing opinion into it ... it should be an indirect free kick to Phillips (more likely) or, if deemed to be an attempted trip, a direct free-kick to Phillips.
There shouldn't even be any discussion about it ... it so obviously isn't a penalty
RagsGordon is allowed to put his leg where he likes anyway.
Defininitely a wind up now .... let's hope when a Blues player is running through on goal and a Preston player plonks his leg immediately in front of his running leg and trips him up that the ref doesn't agree that a player is allowed to "put his leg wherever he likes" without it being a foul
Or if Ruddy goes to throw it up to take drop kick and Preston a player puts his leg up so the ball hits his leg drops to him and scores.
If Gordon gets a toe on the ball then gets kicked through then yes a penalty. But, putting your leg in the way of somebody in motion of kicking the ball away is as per the rules, endangering themselves of getting kicked and therefore an indirect free kick.
RagsClear who is on the wind up. That would be a foul for a trip.Gordon is allowed to put his leg where he likes anyway.
Defininitely a wind up now .... let's hope when a Blues player is running through on goal and a Preston player plonks his leg immediately in front of his running leg and trips him up that the ref doesn't agree that a player is allowed to "put his leg wherever he likes" without it being a foul
Phillips kicked Gordon. He wasn’t tripped
RagsPhillips kicked Gordon. Thanks for clarifying what didn’t need clarity for meHere are the laws of the game from theFA.com [www.thefa.com]
-----------------------------------------
Direct and indirect free kicks and penalty kicks can only be awarded for offences committed when the ball is in play.
1. Direct free kick
A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
** charges
** jumps at
** kicks or attempts to kick
** pushes
** strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
** tackles or challenges
** trips or attempts to trip
If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick.
Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
------------------------------
Yesterday:
Phillips wasn't carded so it wasn't reckless.
He wasn't sent off, so he didn't use excessive force.
Which leaves careless. Gordon came in from behind and didn't play the ball, so Phillips can't be accused of a lack of either attention or consideration or carelessness.
Gordon has attemted to hook Phillips' leg from behind to stop him playing the ball OR Gordon had deliberately tried to prevent the player from playing the ball without himself being in control of the ball.
This is why you can't claim to be shielding a ball out of play etc when you obstruct someone 10 yards or so from the ball - because you aren't in control of the ball. At no point was Gordon "in control" of that ball as an outstrethed leg ploked down in front of another player's leg isn't deemed as being in control of the ball ...
... it is clearly an attempt by Gordon to trip, OR an attempt by Gordon to stop an opponent playing the ball
So, based on the laws of the game it is either
a direct free kick awarded to Phillips because Gordon's actions are deemed to be a trip or an attempted trip
or more likely
an indirect free kick awarded to Phillips
Here are the rules on indirect free-kicks
------------------------------
2. Indirect Free Kick
An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
** plays in a dangerous manner
** impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
** is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s) or other verbal offences
** prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
** initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law, whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands; the goalkeeper is penalised if responsible for initiating the deliberate trick
** commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player
PLAYING IN A DANGEROUS MANNER
Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.
A scissors or bicycle kick is permissible provided that it is not dangerous to an opponent.
IMPEDING THE PROGRESS OF AN OPPONENT WITHOUT CONTACT
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.
A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.
NOTE ... Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.
-----------------------------------
So based on the rules/laws ... and without even bringing opinion into it ... it should be an indirect free kick to Phillips (more likely) or, if deemed to be an attempted trip, a direct free-kick to Phillips.
There shouldn't even be any discussion about it ... it so obviously isn't a penalty
Gordon is closest to the ball when Phillips kicks him
No he isn’t
In fact, he’s between him and the ball.
No he isn’t
That’s not a penalty. Bloke was already in mid swing and Gordon came from behind what’s he supposed to do.
Ref got it right what the hell is VAR doing getting involved.
Games getting itself into a bit of a mess.
Havnt seen the other so cannot comment.
Surprised there are people saying it should be a penalty. Not many who played I would suspect.
If anything a foul the other the way but the ref let play go on no problem with that.
Le ModGordon is closest to the ball when Phillips kicks him
No he isn’t
In fact, he’s between him and the ball.
No he isn’t
Pretty inaccurate kick at the ball then 😁
Phillips’ standing foot is next to the ball. Gordon doesn’t have any of his body near the ball. In fact he’s not even facing the ball when the contact is made.
Incorrect decision for me. Gordon has put his foot in and not got anywhere near the ball, causing a tangle of legs with Phillips. Play on.
I mean, this could be a glaring example of why it's a good thing that I don't referee anymore, but from watching the highlights once, I don't think that was a penalty.
Le ModPhillips’ standing foot is next to the ball. Gordon doesn’t have any of his body near the ball. In fact he’s not even facing the ball when the contact is made.
You reckon?
[www.skysports.com]
Anyway, neither of us is going to change our mind. Moyes moaned a bit about the decision (not that much for him) and said Gordon restricted Phillips from kicking the ball be having ‘his leg in the way’. Tends to happen in football matches.
Fat Buddha CBE
That article is good, fine and overdue - the only mystery is how he fails to mention the king of all cheats. Perhaps it's because he can hardly get a game for Man City nowadays?
Fat Buddha CBE
Spot on that
Agree that this was a foul by Gordon and not a penalty.
Mane did the same thing a few years ago with Aurier (and few other times too actually) and I said the same then, the attacker committed the foul not the defender.
Most people on here said I was wrong then too 😆