Fair enough, but you'll generally find every single football team in the world needs a leader with emotional intelligence, that's the managers job, to organise them, play to their strengths, give them simple messaging and get results. If a manager can't do it it doesn;t automatically mean all the players are heathens.
Good managers do it, bad ones don't. It's been true at Blues this year, it was true at Vile under Gerrard/Emery (same players), it's been true at WBA under Coberan/Bruce (Same Players) and that's just selecting the teams located closest to us.
We can debate the effort of the players, their application etc, the reality is none of this would be being debated if we hadn't had a dreadful manager in charge for a third of the season, because we'd be safe and bored, waiting for next season.
FWIW I'd release all of those out of contract, but will be disappointed to see Buchanan, Stansfield, Miyoshi, Paik, Bacuna depart should they do so, they are talented and hard working.
La Fine Della StradaEl MayorLe ModI do get that, it was definitely prevalent against Cardiff. But equally we've come from behind to win or draw more times this season than probably the previous 5 combined
Even still, I still think a lot of the discourse is silly, I dunno how people can look at Buchanan, Paik, James, Miyoshi, Anderson, Bacuna, Juke, Hall, Stansfield, Sunjic and deduce that they all need to be flogged because they're w******s, and be deadly serious about it.
To me it's just lazy cliche stuff because (and this will sound snobby) they fundamentally cannot get their head around why the teams results and performances might have dropped off, even though it is incredibly obvious.
Gonna be devils advocate here
I think you have to appreciate that different people get wound up by different things. I don’t mind Laird or Bacuna trying to gee up the crowd but some absolutely hate it.
Likewise, I think some can’t separate how a managers tactics can affect how a player is playing - as Rags has cogently pointed out sometimes we’ve been defensive under Rowett cos Rowett wants us to be tight at the back and not concede.
Football is a game of opinions after all. Look at the shit Laird gets on here yet according to Whoscored.com hes got one of the highest average ratings in the division.
18th - [www.whoscored.com]
I really don't understand the arm waving gripe. When we're winning the crowd buzz off it and when we're losing they should just concentrate on their jobs - so fickle.
FWIW Jude was the biggest arm waver I've seen at the club for as long as I can remember.
Key difference is Jude was a 16 year old kid who's come through the academy and was carrying the team at the time.
Will admit I didn't mind it at first, but it's doing my head in when we're losing this season - stop asking for support and do something on the pitch to justify it. I think our support has mostly been very good this season given the playing standard, to be honest.
DolphTamDolphLe ModFat Buddha CBE FEAI'm honestly not a boo'er, but let's be honest, that's live sport. Always has been, always will be, right round the world. It's why they're paid the big bucks.
Also, winds me up when they try to gee up the crowd whilst playing shit. Whip in a good cross, or put in a great challenge, that will gee us up.
I think that winds a lot of people up - "we're already doing our job mate - get on and do yours" .. and it would annoy me too
You said the other day that you don't "despise" the players, which is good .... but you must see that some people/fans do. They absolutely despise them
Me. I fecking hate the bastards.
Can you name the ones you despise?
I am not being tricky or provocative, genuinely interested, I read all day on Twitter that this squad is full of scumbags who don't try etc, can you name the ones you hate? I'll take Sanderson as a given
I hate anyone who downed tools in training under Mowbray .
Can’t remember the exact quote but it was something along the lines of players not being arsed and in 2nd gear . Obviously continued when our substitute teacher was in charge .
I get for the majority of these it’s a job and I get even professionals like James Milner can’t be 100% every day . I get they’ve had a lot of mixed messages and have had 6 different voices and 6 different tactical set ups. But the way this lot consistently flick the switch on deciding whether to perform is disgraceful.
We finally had a manager who not only is emotionally intelligent , is tactically astute , could manage grown men, is a leader and plays sexy football , yet they were still p*sing about in training .
No excuses bin then off.
Was there any evidence that players downed tools under anyone, especially Mowbray? I don't mean 'played badly', but more 'didn't try'?
To be a top football club you have to have certain standards. I did it a little bit today. We had Rondos to start with - 6v2 in 10 metre squares - and it wasn’t good enough. They see it as a bit of fun and a bit of a laugh, back-flicks, lookaway passes, giving the ball away and they turn it over too often. It’s not good enough. They should be able to keep it 20, 30, 40 passes and the two can never get a kick.
But wouldn't that be a case of the manager or coaches allowing that scenario to happen? I don't really see that as 'downing tools' if it's under the eye of the coaching staff and deemed to be OK. Any lack of ability to retain the ball is a different argument, of course.
mjd2505La Fine Della StradaEl MayorLe ModI do get that, it was definitely prevalent against Cardiff. But equally we've come from behind to win or draw more times this season than probably the previous 5 combined
Even still, I still think a lot of the discourse is silly, I dunno how people can look at Buchanan, Paik, James, Miyoshi, Anderson, Bacuna, Juke, Hall, Stansfield, Sunjic and deduce that they all need to be flogged because they're w******s, and be deadly serious about it.
To me it's just lazy cliche stuff because (and this will sound snobby) they fundamentally cannot get their head around why the teams results and performances might have dropped off, even though it is incredibly obvious.
Gonna be devils advocate here
I think you have to appreciate that different people get wound up by different things. I don’t mind Laird or Bacuna trying to gee up the crowd but some absolutely hate it.
Likewise, I think some can’t separate how a managers tactics can affect how a player is playing - as Rags has cogently pointed out sometimes we’ve been defensive under Rowett cos Rowett wants us to be tight at the back and not concede.
Football is a game of opinions after all. Look at the shit Laird gets on here yet according to Whoscored.com hes got one of the highest average ratings in the division.
18th - [www.whoscored.com]
I really don't understand the arm waving gripe. When we're winning the crowd buzz off it and when we're losing they should just concentrate on their jobs - so fickle.
FWIW Jude was the biggest arm waver I've seen at the club for as long as I can remember.
Key difference is Jude was a 16 year old kid who's come through the academy and was carrying the team at the time.
Will admit I didn't mind it at first, but it's doing my head in when we're losing this season - stop asking for support and do something on the pitch to justify it. I think our support has mostly been very good this season given the playing standard, to be honest.
I see all 3 as emotional footballers who leave absolutely everything out on the pitch and feed off crowd involvement. I find getting angry at that exclusively when we're losing very very strange.
I totally agree , if you look at the pyramid , SAF , Klopp, pep , ancelotti , are all leaders and intelligent, motivating figures.
Our players needed that and were given an almost perfect manager .
Why were they still p*ssing around ? What’s their excuse ?
As much as I agree with Rooney , the players are unprofessional and them picking and choosing when they turn up is a major contributor as to why we’re in this position.
DolphI totally agree , if you look at the pyramid , SAF , Klopp, pep , ancelotti , are all leaders and intelligent, motivating figures.
Our players needed that and were given an almost perfect manager .
Why were they still p*ssing around ? What’s their excuse ?
As much as I agree with Rooney , the players are unprofessional and them picking and choosing when they turn up is a major contributor as to why we’re in this position.
Are you still referring to the rondo stuff? As I mentioned before, that would be supervised by the coaching staff, wouldn't it? Presumably deemed OK by them?
FWIW I'd release all of those out of contract, but will be disappointed to see Buchanan, Stansfield, Miyoshi, Paik, Bacuna depart should they do so, they are talented and hard working.
...yeah this, but probably don't have that much say regarding Stansfield 😤
Wrong terminology down tooled .
Should have used unprofessional and half hearted .
Think tone says in the quote the standards aren’t good enough.
If they’re gonna mess about for someone like Mowbray we got no chance .
They largely performed under Mowbray, we finished his spell with back to back wins, it was working
I don't think they pick and choose when to perform, we didn't win under Rooney because we weren't set up to, different formation every week, starting Oli Burke, playing Juke on his own up front, asking Long and Ruddy to do things they are not capable of doing, asking the full backs to play on the half way line, playing Aiwu as a wing back, I could go on, no amount of effort would have overcome such a shit show.
Yeah agreed ref Rooney.
No excuse under Venus . Shouldn’t have lost and underperformed against boro and Watford
Venus made horrible subs in a few games that cost us points imo, but it's not his fault because he's never wanted to be a manager
Boro I agree, that was shit, Watford I thought we were fine, conceded a stupid goal and missed chances, no lack of effort
TamTbf Mowbray intimidated it definitely wasn’t ok and he wasn’t standing for it.DolphI totally agree , if you look at the pyramid , SAF , Klopp, pep , ancelotti , are all leaders and intelligent, motivating figures.
Our players needed that and were given an almost perfect manager .
Why were they still p*ssing around ? What’s their excuse ?
As much as I agree with Rooney , the players are unprofessional and them picking and choosing when they turn up is a major contributor as to why we’re in this position.
Are you still referring to the rondo stuff? As I mentioned before, that would be supervised by the coaching staff, wouldn't it? Presumably deemed OK by them?
Atleast 1 got dropped from the next squad I think
Le ModOr Millwall away, Hull away, even Ipswich away. Dembele killed us there. Venus should have picked up more points Tbf considering how we played and got some stinking decisions( pen at Millwall not given, handball at Hull)Venus made horrible subs in a few games that cost us points imo, but it's not his fault because he's never wanted to be a manager
Boro I agree, that was shit, Watford I thought we were fine, conceded a stupid goal and missed chances, no lack of effort
What’s this rondo stuff that’s being referred to? I must have either missed that or forgotten about it?
Bluenose27What’s this rondo stuff that’s being referred to? I must have either missed that or forgotten about it?
Stand in a circle (or similar, the shape doesn't really matter) and pass it back and forth while one or two players in the middle try to intercept the ball.