Le ModEl MayorOn the GG thing - only reason I’d consider keeping him is he’s one of maybe three players in the squad with any kind of leadership type attributes, and we’re probably releasing the other two (Ruddy and Juke).
I'm not totally convinced he is much of a leader tbh but even if we just agree that he is, I'd simply sign new leaders.
That feels like an attribute where there is a significant issue in clear identifying ahead of time?
I mean, most clubs are presumably looking to bring in players who are good leaders but end up having not done so. I'd guess there might be a big environmental factor at play, resulting in at least a degree of having to sign and hope.
Which isn't such an issue with players already here.
Rab C NesbittChris says FEAI’d say two keepers for 3 or 4m. Money isn’t an issue. Their wages will be cheaper than Ruddy’s combined.Rab C NesbittI’d want two footballing keepers tbh. Shouldn’t have to play a different way if one is injured
Hypothetically though: would you rather we put all our eggs into the basket of a top 'keeper (relative for the level etc) for £2m and keep Ruddy; or sign two middling 'keepers for £1m in case one gets injured?
Be interesting to see what we do actually spend. Believe the league one transfer fee record is £2.5m. Are we really going to be smashing that multiple times, especially on keepers?
mjd2505What leadership qualities have you seen from them over their time here?Le ModI don't see the point, everyone has moaned that the squad has no leadership and a lack of standards, and now people are suggesting that we should keep the leaders that we had. Get new ones, ones that can also play and perform.
It's for that very reason I'd be tempted to keep them. The squad is lacking leadership, let's not get rid of all those who have been touted to have leadership qualities.
To be clear, I'm not wholly against any of them going. That's just my logic for keeping them.
mjd2505Rab C NesbittChris says FEAI’d say two keepers for 3 or 4m. Money isn’t an issue. Their wages will be cheaper than Ruddy’s combined.Rab C NesbittI’d want two footballing keepers tbh. Shouldn’t have to play a different way if one is injured
Hypothetically though: would you rather we put all our eggs into the basket of a top 'keeper (relative for the level etc) for £2m and keep Ruddy; or sign two middling 'keepers for £1m in case one gets injured?
Be interesting to see what we do actually spend. Believe the league one transfer fee record is £2.5m. Are we really going to be smashing that multiple times, especially on keepers?
Shed the lot cut the problem at source and start again. Watching the playoffs for league 1 our squad won’t compete physically.
I get nervous at the comments about us spending shitloads of money. I know we are releasing big earners this summer but it feels like we are looking to make the same mistakes all over again.
My understanding is that Knighthead can spend anything on the infrastructure but the incomings and outgoings on the playing side have to be under control. If we have another Harry style trolley dash and don't go up we could be hamstrung for years afterwards. We have to be pretty shrewd still.
Rab C Nesbittmjd2505What leadership qualities have you seen from them over their time here?Le ModI don't see the point, everyone has moaned that the squad has no leadership and a lack of standards, and now people are suggesting that we should keep the leaders that we had. Get new ones, ones that can also play and perform.
It's for that very reason I'd be tempted to keep them. The squad is lacking leadership, let's not get rid of all those who have been touted to have leadership qualities.
To be clear, I'm not wholly against any of them going. That's just my logic for keeping them.
I don't watch them day in day out in training, and I don't hear what they say behind closed doors in the dressing room, so most of it will be second hand information which may or may not be correct. I can only base my opinion on that.
But I thought Ruddy spoke very well in his post match interviews, probably the best "captain" speak we've had all season about standards, holding people accountable, etc. He's also pretty vocal in commanding his defence as part of his role in goal, and I think has a reputation for being a leader at other clubs.
Jutkiewicz I would say isn't a vocal leader but leads by example. He's humble, always puts 110% in, cares deeply for the club and his rush back to fitness at the end of the season was a prime example of his character.
Gardner I'm less sure on. I've seen him do some solid gamesmanship stuff throwing balls away and stuff while we're winning from the bench, telling ball boys to hide the ball etc. But I swear I heard he was a great voice in the dressing room. Very much mostly going off of second hand info there, hence why I'm less sure on keeping him around in general.
mjd2505Le ModI don't see the point, everyone has moaned that the squad has no leadership and a lack of standards, and now people are suggesting that we should keep the leaders that we had. Get new ones, ones that can also play and perform.
It's for that very reason I'd be tempted to keep them. The squad is lacking leadership, let's not get rid of all those who have been touted to have leadership qualities.
To be clear, I'm not wholly against any of them going. That's just my logic for keeping them.
That's my point though, everyone says we already lack leaders, so by that token they can't be doing a very good job of it.
I'd personally sign 3 or 4 proven leaders who will be very good players at this level, I see little value in paying a few old men who are not good enough, just to be around the place.
JohnPI get nervous at the comments about us spending shitloads of money. I know we are releasing big earners this summer but it feels like we are looking to make the same mistakes all over again.
My understanding is that Knighthead can spend anything on the infrastructure but the incomings and outgoings on the playing side have to be under control. If we have another Harry style trolley dash and don't go up we could be hamstrung for years afterwards. We have to be pretty shrewd still.
Less true for a couple reasons.
1) In league one FFP is different, it's called SCMP and relates only to salary expenditure. We can spend what we like on transfer fees.
2) Even if we were in the championship, or when we get back promoted, there's been an enormous effort to raise revenues and that provides more money to spend on fees, wages etc. I think the bit Cook said at the open house is often misquoted, but I believe we were on track to have the highest revenue outside of parachute clubs in the championship by the end of next season. So this, alongside ridding players on higher wages and giving out more sensible contracts, is why I think we can spend.
We *could* eff it up TTA trolley dash style by buying a load of crap at inflated values. But I trust Gardner, Cook, Wagner and Mowbray(?) to spend the money more wisely. They know how badly it messed us up and I don't think they want to make that same mistake. The focus last couple windows has been buying younger players with sell-on value - this is the complete opposite to what we did in the trolley dash where we bought lots of players at their highest transfer values that were only going to depreciate over time.
Nikola Zigic- FEAWages are at the heart of this discussion. If Juke and Gardner were willing to drop to a very small wage then maybe it does make sense to keep them.I'm not massively against GG staying as a mascot type player who makes 5 starts tops. He'd need a tiny salary to reflect that.
Juke and Ruddy too.
I'd want them nowhere near the team regularly, as we need 15 players this summer I think keeping a few might be a necessity unfortunately.
I wouldn't be saying this if we'd stayed up.
BlueSteveWages are at the heart of this discussion. If Juke and Gardner were willing to drop to a very small wage then maybe it does make sense to keep them.
100%. If any of them want a bigger wage then I wouldn't consider it. But if they're willing to drop to something minimal, it's something we can consider
surely you only keep these players if they are better than any signing you can bring in
I really hope we can find better
I'm not massively against GG staying as a mascot type player who makes 5 starts tops
Don't see the point, we need to demand better, no room for players who we cannot trust and who we only think can play a few games. Go out and shock people by signing some proper leaders who are high quality players and will take the piss at this level, approach the likes of Cork and Coady.
Le ModI think your right. There needs to be a reset. There just is not a compelling enough argument to keep any of them. That might seem harsh on Juke but football is a business and being butal just means you are striving for higher standards.I'm not massively against GG staying as a mascot type player who makes 5 starts tops
Don't see the point, we need to demand better, no room for players who we cannot trust and who we only think can play a few games. Go out and shock people by signing some proper leaders who are high quality players and will take the piss at this level, approach the likes of Cork and Coady.
Le ModI'm not massively against GG staying as a mascot type player who makes 5 starts tops
Don't see the point, we need to demand better, no room for players who we cannot trust and who we only think can play a few games. Go out and shock people by signing some proper leaders who are high quality players and will take the piss at this level, approach the likes of Cork and Coady.
How does this happen every close season?! We spend an entire season moaning about how our players aren't good enough, no leadership, can't wait for a clean slate etc then as soon as crunch time hits a portion of the fanbase level themselves in to wanting to keep substandard footballers at the football club.
Get rid of the lot, sign new leaders who are at decent ages and also good at football - it's long long overdue.
La Fine Della StradaLe ModI'm not massively against GG staying as a mascot type player who makes 5 starts tops
Don't see the point, we need to demand better, no room for players who we cannot trust and who we only think can play a few games. Go out and shock people by signing some proper leaders who are high quality players and will take the piss at this level, approach the likes of Cork and Coady.
How does this happen every close season?! We spend an entire season moaning about how our players aren't good enough, no leadership, can't wait for a clean slate etc then as soon as crunch time hits a portion of the fanbase level themselves in to wanting to keep substandard footballers at the football club.
Get rid of the lot, sign new leaders who are at decent ages and also good at football - it's long long overdue.
Simply because I don't put the blame at the doors at Ruddy, Juke, Anderson and Gardner for our relegation.
If we're talking about players and not the management instability, I put the blame at the door of the likes of Burke, Hogan, Aiwu, M Roberts, Sanderson, Bacuna and Laird arguably too. I'm not suggesting we keep most of those.
Could make a case for Sanderson, Bacuna and Laird who show brighter moments, but Sanderson struggling as captain, struggling without a good centre half next to him and his off-field antics do him for me, Bacuna's complete lack of consistency although I do generally like him, I wouldn't mind seeing the back of him, and Laird as much as I think there's a player in there he evidently struggled in the second half of the season with very little offensive output and giving away stupid fouls.