Le ModI think part of the concern is we've played 5 games and seen no progress. Saturday was yet another style, this time direct football. It will take time but you need some points too.
Sheff Wed is huge, he needs a win to give himself some room and breathing space.
I think he needs 6 from Sheff Wed and Rotherham or it'll get really toxic. Relegation wise as well they're important games.
RibeyeHow can people expect us to change to a new style of play in 5 games?
Things take time.
It'll be this time next year before we see the rewards.
People need to calm down. It's not like we're cut adrift at the bottom. I'm sure if it looked that way then Rooney would be gone. I fully expect him to be here at the start of next season.
I don’t expect a change of style to be done in 5 games, my problem is that we’ve played 3 different styles in those games.
How can the players be expected to learn a new style when the manager abandons it straight away?
I think Cook is a bit blinded by a personal like and trust of Rooney. That's understandable human nature.
He's worked with him, rates him, he ticks the box of profile, I can see why Cook thought it'd work.
It's clearly been too much of an emotional rather than an objective business/football decision.
Something I would expect from someone with less experience really.
There was very little from a football perspective to suggest this was remotely sensible.
newblueThe performance against Sunderland wasn’t arguably the ‘worst of the lot’
I honestly think that first 20 minutes or so against Sunderland was as bad as I have seen for ages.
We were absolutely clueless, couldn't put a foot right and Sunderland were having it so easy it was painful to watch.
After that we woke up, played some decent stuff and should have been in front by half-time really. Albeit we could and should have been 3 down after about 15 minutes.
Second half was huffy and puffy, brief spells of decent football but nothing concerted and we looked pretty ragged by the end I thought.
Do you think we should see how things go now? Boro was a bizarre selection but the last two games have been more consistent and I think the way we are likely to go, with some changes of personnel I think. We will see if it settles and starts to get better results.
This is a good point. Style.
I cannot say for certain I understand or can see what style he is trying to implement, as its not really something that stands out or has been, consistent. If we cant see or understand it, can the players?
Indeed, what are the improvements? Not as obvious as we had hoped.
Le ModPlenty said him saying after the Hull game (I think) that he’d asked the players opinions about how they wanted to play and would adapt the style to suit them, was a huge positive. That was a massive warning sign for me. Time will tell of course but I want my manager to have complete faith in his style and if it needs changing the decision comes from him and his staff. It’s basic stuffI think part of the concern is we've played 5 games and seen no progress. Saturday was yet another style, this time direct football. It will take time but you need some points too.
Sheff Wed is huge, he needs a win to give himself some room and breathing space.
SpikenewblueThe performance against Sunderland wasn’t arguably the ‘worst of the lot’
I honestly think that first 20 minutes or so against Sunderland was as bad as I have seen for ages.
We were absolutely clueless, couldn't put a foot right and Sunderland were having it so easy it was painful to watch.
After that we woke up, played some decent stuff and should have been in front by half-time really. Albeit we could and should have been 3 down after about 15 minutes.
Second half was huffy and puffy, brief spells of decent football but nothing concerted and we looked pretty ragged by the end I thought.
That’s how I saw it, I said the other day first 25 of the first half was shambolic - but after that the game really did switch around. I think you may be forgetting how many Boro should have been up by at halt time though….second half Saturday was a bit ‘meh’ and I do think we gave 2 really poor goals away (I don’t usually say that but it was to do with concentration). After the first 25 mins I thought Sunjic and James closed up the mid field and we generally got on the front foot.
One thing I would agree is how open we were on our left side, particularly first half. People have said it was because of narrow full backs but it was like that on the other side of our defence. That needs sorting out. We do lose something in the air in the centre without Long, and I thought Sanderson needed to assert himself more.
SpikeYeah that first 20 minutes was horrendously bad. We do look like losing a game 5-2 or 6-1 eventuallynewblueThe performance against Sunderland wasn’t arguably the ‘worst of the lot’
I honestly think that first 20 minutes or so against Sunderland was as bad as I have seen for ages.
We were absolutely clueless, couldn't put a foot right and Sunderland were having it so easy it was painful to watch.
After that we woke up, played some decent stuff and should have been in front by half-time really. Albeit we could and should have been 3 down after about 15 minutes.
Second half was huffy and puffy, brief spells of decent football but nothing concerted and we looked pretty ragged by the end I thought.
I'm very much a "faith" supporter at the minute, who doesn't want to see a manager sacked because he picked up 1 draw in his first 5 games which were tough. I'm also someone who admits that he has no idea whether Rooney will go on to be a world class manager or not, instead of acting the oracle of football and saying he will NEVER achieve anything and was a FAILURE at other clubs.
Le ModSheff Wed is huge, he needs a win to give himself some room and breathing space.
This. Sheffield Wednesday isn't a must win for the club, but it's a must win for Rooney and his relationship with the fans I think. My worry personally is that even if we get 7 points out of the next 3, the run of games after that is also very tough. Cov (A), Cardiff (A), Leicester (H), Plymouth (A) are another 4 tough games, and he can't afford another run like the last 5 else it'll soon turn toxic again.
But I'd like to think I don't just have blind faith either. If we've still not won a game in his first 10, then I'm not going to sit here saying "back him guys", we've got winnable games coming up and although I can excuse the last 5, I will not sit here and excuse anything less than 4 points against Wednesday and Rotherham. And really, by having such a poor run leading up to it, 2 wins are almost essential.
I guess we all expected the first 5 games to be tough so I can kind of stomach that we've got 1 point from these 5 games, however the next 5 games are the total opposite.
We need 2 wins minimum out of the next 4 really cause after that we have quite a difficult run all the way up until March. If we're still as bad as we've been we will end up in a relegation battle again.
looking at it rationally he needs a summer transfer window and a pre season with his players, then he can be judged
then this time next season if he's wasted that and its clear he's the average manager his career so far has shown we get another man in who can utilise the players signed and get them playing
what players do we think he needs to be able to implement Waz ball
new GK
new CH's
new CM that can get their foot on the ball and dictate play
couple of forwards
basically everything apart from full backs and a few midfielders
Rab C NesbittLe ModPlenty said him saying after the Hull game (I think) that he’d asked the players opinions about how they wanted to play and would adapt the style to suit them, was a huge positive. That was a massive warning sign for me. Time will tell of course but I want my manager to have complete faith in his style and if it needs changing the decision comes from him and his staff. It’s basic stuffI think part of the concern is we've played 5 games and seen no progress. Saturday was yet another style, this time direct football. It will take time but you need some points too.
Sheff Wed is huge, he needs a win to give himself some room and breathing space.
Massive warning sign for me too.
Good that he could see it was wrong and was conciliatory with the players.
Worrying that he hasn't got a flipping clue.
Nikola ZigicRab C NesbittLe ModPlenty said him saying after the Hull game (I think) that he’d asked the players opinions about how they wanted to play and would adapt the style to suit them, was a huge positive. That was a massive warning sign for me. Time will tell of course but I want my manager to have complete faith in his style and if it needs changing the decision comes from him and his staff. It’s basic stuffI think part of the concern is we've played 5 games and seen no progress. Saturday was yet another style, this time direct football. It will take time but you need some points too.
Sheff Wed is huge, he needs a win to give himself some room and breathing space.
Massive warning sign for me too.
Good that he could see it was wrong and was conciliatory with the players.
Worrying that he hasn't got a flipping clue.
Do we not think it could've just been a way for him to build a relationship with the players? Maybe he'd already decided what he was going to change, but consulted the players to make them feel heard and valued by their new boss. Obviously I know as much as you do - just speculating that it might not be him showing he hasn't got a clue or faith in his system. Assuming he doesn't get the sack, over the next 12 months I fully expect him to implement the system we saw vs Boro, but with more success given the time and 2 transfer windows.
Actually, I agree with Rab that of all the things that have been said about Rooney (and what he has said) I think doing that is bizarre. A manager has to have a way he wants his team to play and know himself he can deliver it, that’s leadership.