Personally I think he needs to be given 2 windows. Doesn’t necessarily mean splashing the cash but I’m sure things can be done.
He’s been unlucky with the teams we’ve had to play but I have seen signs that are progressive.
Unfortunately when he’s had to inherit players such as Bacuna, Roberts, Longelo, Sunjic, et al, his hands have been tied.
I’m not saying these players are useless but they I just don’t think they can help push the club on.
Have you?
BTW this is not aimed at you specifically...
People keep making these observations. "I've seen signs. He needs time. The players aren't good enough and we're over achieving, under Eustace".
Quite frankly they piss me off. It's like opinions change to suit what's happening.
We we're unbeaten at home, playing some decent stuff at times and on our day we could give anyone a decent go.
We deserved to be where we were because we had the point to be there. End of effin story.
We were talked about as dark horses with the shrewd investment. Now everyone is laughing their heads off.
The players were battling under Eustace and at times played some quite attractive football.
Most fans had a sense that we were moving forward.
Yeah, ok maybe Eustace might not be their man long-term but lets see where we are at the end of the season with HIS players. If it doesn't work, we THEN try a fresh start, new manager and a good pre-season with HIS players.
What exactly has anyone seen since then that's could be considered 'a sign'.
All i've seen is a disjointed team, playing suicide passes to each other. They have a spell for 10 mins where they remember they're footballers but other than that, everytime a team runs at us we looks absolute frit to death.
The defence is worse. The midfield is all over the shop and we don't really look like we have a plan of attack.
There are signs yes, but signs that this is not going well... don't even start me on Rooney's comments, it was a good away performance. That's batshit Lee Clark territory which is an achievement.
I wouldn't mind and this might be an unpopular opinion, when we attack i don't see what we are doing differently than what we were doing under Eustace.
We press and bomb forward.
The difference for me is under Eustace we could actually stay solid at the back.
Personally I think he needs to be given 2 windows. Doesn’t necessarily mean splashing the cash but I’m sure things can be done.
He’s been unlucky with the teams we’ve had to play but I have seen signs that are progressive.
Unfortunately when he’s had to inherit players such as Bacuna, Roberts, Longelo, Sunjic, et al, his hands have been tied.
I’m not saying these players are useless but they I just don’t think they can help push the club on.
Have you?
BTW this is not aimed at you specifically...
People keep making these observations. "I've seen signs. He needs time. The players aren't good enough and we're over achieving, under Eustace".
Quite frankly they piss me off. It's like opinions change to suit what's happening.
We we're unbeaten at home, playing some decent stuff at times and on our day we could give anyone a decent go.
We deserved to be where we were because we had the point to be there. End of effin story.
We were talked about as dark horses with the shrewd investment. Now everyone is laughing their heads off.
The players were battling under Eustace and at times played some quite attractive football.
Most fans had a sense that we were moving forward.
Yeah, ok maybe Eustace might not be their man long-term but lets see where we are at the end of the season with HIS players. If it doesn't work, we THEN try a fresh start, new manager and a good pre-season with HIS players.
What exactly has anyone seen since then that's could be considered 'a sign'.
All i've seen is a disjointed team, playing suicide passes to each other. They have a spell for 10 mins where they remember they're footballers but other than that, everytime a team runs at us we looks absolute frit to death.
The defence is worse. The midfield is all over the shop and we don't really look like we have a plan of attack.
There are signs yes, but signs that this is not going well... don't even start me on Rooney's comments, it was a good away performance. That's batshit Lee Clark territory which is an achievement.
I wouldn't mind and this might be an unpopular opinion, when we attack i don't see what we are doing differently than what we were doing under Eustace.
We press and bomb forward.
The difference for me is under Eustace we could actually stay solid at the back.
I thought the same as you ...
I thought we were going to get "winning mentality" not "excuse mentality" - good job i discovered FAITH
I think people should be more realistic about the last 5 fixtures we have just played. Middlesborough,Southampton and Sunderland away Hull and Ipswich at home. At most we would have expected 4-5 points out of those run of fixtures under Eustace playing "hard to beat" football. During these games we have had periods where we have caused the opposition problems and created plenty of chances which with better choices being made in the final third could have better results. That has left us more exposed at the back especially on the flanks but in my opinion we are playing a more exciting brand of football already under Rooney. It will be interesting to see how much we improve after this break but I think we will have a much better overall picture after Christmas.
Actually, I agree with Rab that of all the things that have been said about Rooney (and what he has said) I think doing that is bizarre. A manager has to have a way he wants his team to play and know himself he can deliver it, that’s leadership.
Hesitant as I am to disagree with such esteemed elders of the board, I think that was a good move by Rooney. It goes back implementing change organically, getting the senior pros, troublemakers on side, understanding the mindsets of the players, working with tha bastards.
Being willing to tweak as circumstances and the abilities of personnel dictate, doesn’t necessarily signify wholesale change or abandonment of beliefs. It indicates a flexibility of approach.
“No plan of operations can be at all relied upon beyond the first encounter with the enemy’s main force. Only the civilian believes that he can see in the course of a campaign the consequence of an original plan formed beforehand.”
Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke
I think people should be more realistic about the last 5 fixtures we have just played. Middlesborough,Southampton and Sunderland away Hull and Ipswich at home. At most we would have expected 4-5 points out of those run of fixtures under Eustace playing "hard to beat" football. During these games we have had periods where we have caused the opposition problems and created plenty of chances which with better choices being made in the final third could have better results. That has left us more exposed at the back especially on the flanks but in my opinion we are playing a more exciting brand of football already under Rooney. It will be interesting to see how much we improve after this break but I think we will have a much better overall picture after Christmas.
You’re making me giddy, Doug…well said.
Actually, I agree with Rab that of all the things that have been said about Rooney (and what he has said) I think doing that is bizarre. A manager has to have a way he wants his team to play and know himself he can deliver it, that’s leadership.
Hesitant as I am to disagree with such esteemed elders of the board, I think that was a good move by Rooney. It goes back implementing change organically, getting the senior pros, troublemakers on side, understanding the mindsets of the players, working with tha bastards.
Being willing to tweak as circumstances and the abilities of personnel dictate, doesn’t necessarily signify wholesale change or abandonment of beliefs. It indicates a flexibility of approach.
“No plan of operations can be at all relied upon beyond the first encounter with the enemy’s main force. Only the civilian believes that he can see in the course of a campaign the consequence of an original plan formed beforehand.”
Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke
"Field Marshal Helmuth von Moltke" ... thanks ... i thought you were quoting Wilco lyrics again
giddydougI think people should be more realistic about the last 5 fixtures we have just played. Middlesborough,Southampton and Sunderland away Hull and Ipswich at home. At most we would have expected 4-5 points out of those run of fixtures under Eustace playing "hard to beat" football. During these games we have had periods where we have caused the opposition problems and created plenty of chances which with better choices being made in the final third could have better results. That has left us more exposed at the back especially on the flanks but in my opinion we are playing a more exciting brand of football already under Rooney. It will be interesting to see how much we improve after this break but I think we will have a much better overall picture after Christmas.
I just don't see this at all, I'll be honest
To me we look like we have less of a plan of how to attack, it's like the players have been chucked on the pitch and asked to play off the cuff, there are no patterns of play or plans beyond winning the ball in the opponents half, our attacking set pieces are awful and I can't recall a single header we've won from any of them. We've now ditched our best attacking outlet, and played 5 styles in 5 game
I don't think we've been exciting, 45 mins against Ipswich aside, where the ball winning plan worked really well
On the flip side, we are also far worse as a defensive unit, teams play through us, play around us, have loads of shots and chances, we look very bad on defensive set pieces, and we generally look badly coached and chaotic.
I'll caveat all of the above by saying that he should get time to do what he needs to do, and we need to give him a chance, but there hasn't been a single positive for me so far, I think we look worse in every department
We've had three of our longest trips and toughet away games as the opening 3 away games.
We've now played 5 of the 7 furthest trips (Plymouth *Ipswich are left)
All of Sunderland Middlesbrough and Southampton are good sides and it is reasonable to think we would have struggled whoever was in charge and whenever we had to visit them.
Having said that there have been points in all 3 games when we have looked clueless - The opening twenty minutes against both Southampton and Sunderland were awful.
I would day we've had one disappointing result v Hull, one Ok result v Ipswich and 3 disappointing, but not unexpected defeats away.
So realistically we are between 1 and 3 points down on what we might have expected from this run of 5.
I don't think that is a problem.
However we have put in 4 bad/disjointed performances in 5 games. That is a bit more concerning. We missed Bielik on Saturday. He would have added solidity to the midfield.
I think there is some concern we are too narrow at the back and give the opposition too much space. I suppose the 4-3-3 was supposed to counter that, but by putting midfielders wide we were open down the middle v Boro.
The other concern is that our subs - particularly up front weaken us. When we start Stansfield we take him off too early. There is a clear sense that when he is replaced by Juke/Hogan we are effectively admitting defeat. Especially if Burke goes off at the same time. I think we have to keep a physical threat up front for more of each game. It's no good if it peters out on 70 minutes. If we are to play with Hogan up front we have to find a way of maintaining a threat. We didn't really do that on Saturday, although Hogan did get one chance. Juke only makes sense for 10 minutes if we are putting loads of balls in to the box.
I don't think we are in crisis quite yet.
What we do have is two of our easiest home games of the season (on paper) up next. We need both points and good performances. I'd prioritise points, but both would be nice.
6 - 9 points from the Sheff Wed, Blackburn and Rotherham games would be good.
Two good home performances would lift a lot of the apprehension.
We have another tough run in to December with Leicester and Stoke as the home games.
I think it’s in between. I think we do look more threatening in attack, but it is coming at a cost. A manager has to produce results so let’s see where it goes.
Opinions I guess, I personally don't think we look any better going forward, we are pressing more and therefore winning the ball high more often, but it's at the expense of defensive solidity and it's costing us more chances than we gain
In possession we look worse imo, we had an obvious way of playing, Dembele (latter Anderson) would hug the touchline, we would play out through the full backs, one full back would bomb on, one would stay, the right midfielder would tuck in, it was structured and coherent, despite Dembele/Laird/Anderson not being available for chunks. Dembele is now out of the team and I think we look less threatening as a result of that too.
The only change I'd have made (which I called for and got stick for) would have been to have someone more progressive next to Bielik, to control things better and be a bit braver, James would be perfect for that.
Hopefully in a few months things look very different and we're waxing lyrical about the style and how effective we are, we need to see signs in the next few games.
Opinions I guess, I personally don't think we look any better going forward, we are pressing more and therefore winning the ball high more often, but it's at the expense of defensive solidity and it's costing us more chances than we gain
In possession we look worse imo, we had an obvious way of playing, Dembele (latter Anderson) would hug the touchline, we would play out through the full backs, one full back would bomb on, one would stay, the right midfielder would tuck in, it was structured and coherent, despite Dembele/Laird/Anderson not being available for chunks
The only change I'd have made (which I called for and got stick for) would have been to have someone more progressive next to Bielik, to control things better and be a bit braver, James would be perfect for that.
Hopefully in a few months things look very different and we're waxing lyrical about the style and how effective we are, we need to see signs in the next few games.
i agree with everything you've said there - but i'd like to see the improvement happen before the January window to convince me that Rooney is a better manager than Eustace in terms of getting the best out of what he has to work with.
StechyBluePeople keep making these observations. "I've seen signs. He needs time. The players aren't good enough and we're over achieving, under Eustace".
Quite frankly they piss me off. It's like opinions change to suit what's happening.
You mean like confirmation bias?
StechyBluethis might be an unpopular opinion
It will be with a certain clique and you'll probably (ironically) be told that your negative opinion of the situation is down to your bias.
Tha Project OBEI think people should be more realistic about the last 5 fixtures we have just played. Middlesborough,Southampton and Sunderland away Hull and Ipswich at home. At most we would have expected 4-5 points out of those run of fixtures under Eustace playing "hard to beat" football. During these games we have had periods where we have caused the opposition problems and created plenty of chances which with better choices being made in the final third could have better results. That has left us more exposed at the back especially on the flanks but in my opinion we are playing a more exciting brand of football already under Rooney. It will be interesting to see how much we improve after this break but I think we will have a much better overall picture after Christmas.
You’re making me giddy, Doug…well said.
Not well said at all, all that Christmas will bring is steps closer to the bottom 3.
Le ModOpinions I guess, I personally don't think we look any better going forward, we are pressing more and therefore winning the ball high more often, but it's at the expense of defensive solidity and it's costing us more chances than we gain
In possession we look worse imo, we had an obvious way of playing, Dembele (latter Anderson) would hug the touchline, we would play out through the full backs, one full back would bomb on, one would stay, the right midfielder would tuck in, it was structured and coherent, despite Dembele/Laird/Anderson not being available for chunks. Dembele is now out of the team and I think we look less threatening as a result of that too.
The only change I'd have made (which I called for and got stick for) would have been to have someone more progressive next to Bielik, to control things better and be a bit braver, James would be perfect for that.
Hopefully in a few months things look very different and we're waxing lyrical about the style and how effective we are, we need to see signs in the next few games.
👍
Rab C NesbittIt really is time to put our foot on the ball, look at the bigger picture and relax at this time. New owners with a vision, big plans and not the shit or bust approach we’ve seen fairly recently. If Rooney doesn’t work out, he’ll go but more patience is needed. FFP worries should ease year on year, there’s a new ground apparently on the way, this isn’t the Blues we have grown to love and hate in equal measure at times, I’m sure of the that. It’s time to trust.
As I’ve said before it’s a long, long road. Not a cul-de-sac
Well said believe in the process