Under JE we were never shambolic. We were boring at times, and unambitious in a couple of away games, but we were never a shambles.
And I guess "exciting" is in the eye of the beholder, but we're having less of the ball, scoring less, conceding more, winning less and losing all the time. Not sure how that's enjoyable for anyone to watch TBH - as a season ticket holder I'd seen us play 6 win 4 and draw 2 league games at home this season before Rooney
HOWEVER - I would say that last night we looked dynamic going forward, there were clear patterns of play through midfield and attack, and to agree with the thread starter - you can see what we are looking to do. What needs to change is some personnel - the keeper isn't suited - Sanderson isn't suited (Rooney not happy with him during the interview), Beilik is too slow, jury out on Aiwu, jury out on Burke, Juke a stop gap. When he gets his players in you would hope this changes, but until then I think we will have more games like yesterday where the top of the pitch is Baywatch and the bottom of the pitch is Crimewatch
Bielek worries me, he's a superb player at this level when used correctly. We should be looking to support him with the runners needed to suit his game.
Eustace was always going to be replaced by Knighthead and replaced by their man, I have no issue with that. Unfortunately Rooney so far as shown little for me to have much faith in him. Given the players at our disposal we were always going to be an average workmanlike team based on organisation and structure. To change this will take substantial investment, in particular we have needed at least 2 new strikers for the past couple of seasons but we have been unable to get them.
No manager will get unlimited time to establish themselves and Rooney is no different, our current form is dismal, we are unable to defend and we have lost our ability to be difficult to beat. Those who think we will not get relegated this season are rather naive, if our current form continues of course we will. Trying to clutch at straws by identifying some elements of good play rather than focusing on defeats is daft. I’m hoping Rooney can pull this around but if our form does not by the end of January I can see the Rooney experiment ending. The owners haven’t committed to the investment to see the club being relegated in the first season
Alongside Sunjic protecting the back 4 it was perfect. Beilik to protect, win headers, intercept, and start attacks, Sunjic to run around and rattle people.
Liverpool had Alonso and Mascherano doing the same jobs at the highest level and it works in a 4-2-3-1 but it never works (and I said this before Rooney's first game when a 4-3-3 was discussed) when you have a single deep defensive midfielder and he's got no legs.
I know we've been playing more of a 4-4-2 / 4-2-2-2 since Ipswich but Beilik is always the deepest and he struggles
Sanderson is another one we have to get right, not cheap (to us) and has a lot of years ahead of him. He clearly enjoys being here and gets the club.
He's a good player too, a good defender and I think will get better on the ball.
Yeah agreed - although I don't think Rooney likes him - dug him out again last night
QBBC2LondonBlue- we’ve just not got good enough quality. And that’s the players problem not the Clubs or Fans. How on earth do some of them think they’ll ever be good enough for a top Championship side I’ll never know.
The problem with it being ‘the players problem’ and then ‘not being good enough’ is the fact that before a brainless decision by the board these same players were 6th in the league.
Some questions for you:
Where do you think we would currently be in the table if JE was still at the helm?
How quickly do you think the playing style/consistency of performance would have improved if JE was given more time?
Do you suffer from neck pain constantly looking backwards instead of forwards?
I think we would be at least 7th, he would have gotten 6 more points than Rooney has in this time and with the swing in GD and potential dropped points by Blackburn we’d be 7th. Actually scratch that, I think 6th as I think we’d also have gotten something against Hull.
I do not think we’re playing better football at all right now, and tbh I never even had an issue with Eustace, he utilised stand field in a far better way and that was beautiful to watch in itself, so that’s a nil point.
Well, the first premise of the thread was about our players not being good enough for this system, the only one to reference the inaccuracy of that is to point back, how else do you want me to that? Or should I just blindly agree with everything..
JE's reign seems to be judged by those 3 away losses in Sept (Watford, Preston, Norwich)
and this 'thing' about results in September is a stick to beat him with and used to justify his sacking by some.
Actually, was it that bad looking back? We could have beaten Preston and were minutes away from point at Watford. Granted Norwich was poor so potentially 4/9 points there, certainly 2/9 This was soon rectified by the next 2 home results. Boring or not he was getting something out of them
QBBC2LondonBlue- we’ve just not got good enough quality. And that’s the players problem not the Clubs or Fans. How on earth do some of them think they’ll ever be good enough for a top Championship side I’ll never know.
The problem with it being ‘the players problem’ and then ‘not being good enough’ is the fact that before a brainless decision by the board these same players were 6th in the league.
Some questions for you:
Where do you think we would currently be in the table if JE was still at the helm?
How quickly do you think the playing style/consistency of performance would have improved if JE was given more time?
Do you suffer from neck pain constantly looking backwards instead of forwards?
I think we would be at least 7th, he would have gotten 6 more points than Rooney has in this time and with the swing in GD and potential dropped points by Blackburn we’d be 7th. Actually scratch that, I think 6th as I think we’d also have gotten something against Hull.
I do not think we’re playing better football at all right now, and tbh I never even had an issue with Eustace, he utilised stand field in a far better way and that was beautiful to watch in itself, so that’s a nil point.
Well, the first premise of the thread was about our players not being good enough for this system, the only one to reference the inaccuracy of that is to point back, how else do you want me to that? Or should I just blindly agree with everything..
Interesting.
6/7th surprises me tbh, I think that’s the realms of fantasy given our inconsistency under JE. Personally I think we’d be sitting a couple of places above where we currently are.
Whether we’re playing better right now wasn’t the question tbf. The question was how quickly do you think we would have improved if JE was still in charge? Had the owners not been “brainless” how quickly do you think JE would have delivered the consistent, attractive, exciting, winning football as that the owners want?
You can’t reference the inaccuracy of saying our players aren’t good enough for this system by comparing their performances under a different system. In reality what you’re doing is agreeing that the players aren’t good enough (currently) to play this system and the difference is JE recognised this and decided to stop trying and jut make the best of what he had whereas Rooney is insisting that they can but it will take time and dedication to achieve that and it’s worth pursuing.
For me Rooney’s way is right. The only way to improve is to do. There’s no quick fix. The other point to make is that JE was actually hampering progress - JJ being a good example. His words on the difference between JE & WR here are quite telling [www.birminghammail.co.uk]
Bordesley not Small HeathJE's reign seems to be judged by those 3 away losses in Sept (Watford, Preston, Norwich)
and this 'thing' about results in September is a stick to beat him with and used to justify his sacking by some.
Actually, was it that bad looking back? We could have beaten Preston and were minutes away from point at Watford. Granted Norwich was poor so potentially 4/9 points there, certainly 2/9 This was soon rectified by the next 2 home results. Boring or not he was getting something out of them
Yeah, Preston was actually one of our best performances of the season - Miyoshi and STansfield as the 10 and 9 were unreal - but a ridiculous OG and poor defending cost us against a team who were top at the time.
Watford was boring, but we'd have got a point if it weren't for the red card - Norwich was boring and we got what we deserved.
Undoubtedly he set us up for a point in those games, but we had good away performances and results at Swansea and Bristol this season, and those September games all lacked Dembele which when he came back in against Huddersfield and WBA he was electric (especially Udders).
I didn't find any of the home games boring except QPR in which we just lacked spark (was the third game in 7 days if i remember so fairly understandable). Millwall we missed a pen and should have won and the other 4 we won
I go into games expecting to lose now, I didn't have that feeling under JE, it's a results business and I love the positivity off the pitch but ultimately it's a results business and people will start to falter away again which is sad.
Knighthead keep telling us that we need to increase revenue. We know that attendances go up when we are winning but equally media attention will too, which is the exposure that will bring sponsors, advertisers and other investors. Football is about now. It always will be. You ensure that bright future by winning now, increasing revenue and spending wisely on players that fit the way we will play. Knight head have recruited massively but some of those brought in are not going to fit this system and so will need to be moved on. Along with all those out of contract this time around. It all means more expense just to keep where we are. We have planned badly and now we have to deal with it.
Football is about now. It always will be.
If football is about now why do fans insist on harking back to the past or projecting their fantasies onto the future?
LondonBlueDespite the results.
we’ve just not got good enough quality. And that’s the players problem not the Clubs or Fans.
I'm not entirely happy blaming the players.
So long as the players work hard and try their best I don't think you can ask more.
If the players are not god enough it really is the fault of the people at the club who have chosen them.
If you insist on playing a system that doesn't suit the players again that is down to the manager, not the players.
A manager has to do two things. One coach the player to play successfully the way he wants, or two adapt the system until the players he has can be successful under it.
Neither of these things are happening away from home at the moment. We've lost 7 in a row under both Eustace and Rooney.
Of those I would say only at Middlesbrough and Watford were we anywhere close to a point. And both times that was to an extent down to poor finishing by the home side.
I go into virtually every away game expecting to lose and have done since Rowett was sacked.
I don't expect anything at all from Blackburn, Watford, Norwich, QPR, Ipswich, Southampton, Leicester, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Cardiff, Preston, Hull, Swansea, Burnley or Coventry. Off the top of my head.
"We always lose there"
Can't wait for that to change.