Bielsa did it.
Kompany did it.
Others have done it and succeeded. Loads more have done it and failed. We’ve been almost perennially shit for 12 years.
I welcome it
QBBC2]
We would be 6th if we had won 2 extra games, that’s not the realms of fantasy, that’s fact (if hull was one of those games) under Eustace and what he showed I have every faith we would have.
Well the word ‘improved’ is definitely an indication of performance is it not? And it was a brainless decision by the owners, we had players that I believe could have gotten us into the playoffs under the system, and now mid table looks like an achievement and to get the better players for the system they want they will have to spend a lot of money, which we can’t do due to FFP. So yeah, brainless.
IMO opinion, if Rooney carries on as he is, which I sincerely hope he doesn’t, and goes, Cook has to go with him.
Not entirely sure your maths stacks up tbf but either way “if” is fantasy. The fact is that we didn’t win 2 extra games. Your faith in JE is also fantasy, not fact, as it can be just as easily argued that, based on past form, JE wouldn’t have won those games.
It’s difficult to compare or predict what would or wouldn’t have happened had JE still been in charge but if we look at how we fared against the same teams the previous season under JE, where applicable or, in the case of promoted/relegated teams, the teams who had the same or similar final league position the season before, then we get the following
Boro (A) JE lost 1-0 WR lost 1-0
Hull (H) JE lost 1-0 WR lost 2-0
S’hampton* (A) JE N/A WR lost 3-1 comparable JE game Norwich lost 3-1
Ipswich (H) JE N/A. WR drew 2-2 comparable JE game Rotherham won 2-0
Sund (A) JE lost 2-1 WR lost 3-1
Sheff W (H) JE N/A WR won 2-1 comparable JE game Sunderland - lost 2-1
B’burn (A) JE lost 2-1 WR lost 4-2
Based on that JE’s points tally would’ve been 3 and WR’s is 4 so we would have been 1 place lower than we are now but with a better goal difference. Nowhere near 6th though.
Ok so first thing.
My maths does stack up, please prove otherwise if you wanna make a comment like that, an extra 6 points (including beating hull or at least not losing) would put us 6th or 7th. (Depending on GD and also the Blackburn result)
Now secondly, you are really really clutching at stats & comparison there it’s embarrassing.
Let’s just take Eustaces 1.6 points per game average this season which over the 7 games Rooney has faced has given us 4 points, Eustace would have gotten 11.
Now you may say, ‘but look at us playing the top 6 blah blah blah’
Well in the only 2 games JE played against the current top 6 we won both of them, being West Brom and Leeds.
So please, please explain to me why I’m off on this? I’m dying to hear it.
Ok, so you said
Well, the first premise of the thread was about our players not being good enough for this system, the only way (sic) to reference the inaccuracy of that is to point back, how else do you want me to that? Or should I just blindly agree with everything..
so I pointed back to how JE actually did in reality against those teams the previous season, or a comparable team that was promoted/relegated. I’m not sure how that’s embarrassing or clutching at stats. Certainly no more so than the stats you’re deciding to use. Saying Eustace would’ve got 11 points against those 7 teams because he’d averaged 1.6 points in the previous 11 games is no more or less speculative than saying he’d have only gained 4 points because of how he faired in the same/similar games last season. It’s just as plausible that Eustace wouldn’t have won those games. His previous results against the same/similar teams is not markedly better than Rooney’s.
Also, despite his points average leading up to the end of the year, Eustace presided over a period between the end of December and the end of January where we lost 5 in a row, the joint worst run in Championship history apparently. Having a decent run and points average for part of the season doesn’t equate to that continuing in perpetuity so, as a stat to clutch at it’s probably more embarrassing than the stats I used.
Ergo, saying Eustace would currently have us sitting in 6th after the last 7 game is, on balance, unlikely and nowhere near being a fact.
QBBC2QBBC2]
We would be 6th if we had won 2 extra games, that’s not the realms of fantasy, that’s fact (if hull was one of those games) under Eustace and what he showed I have every faith we would have.
Well the word ‘improved’ is definitely an indication of performance is it not? And it was a brainless decision by the owners, we had players that I believe could have gotten us into the playoffs under the system, and now mid table looks like an achievement and to get the better players for the system they want they will have to spend a lot of money, which we can’t do due to FFP. So yeah, brainless.
IMO opinion, if Rooney carries on as he is, which I sincerely hope he doesn’t, and goes, Cook has to go with him.
Not entirely sure your maths stacks up tbf but either way “if” is fantasy. The fact is that we didn’t win 2 extra games. Your faith in JE is also fantasy, not fact, as it can be just as easily argued that, based on past form, JE wouldn’t have won those games.
It’s difficult to compare or predict what would or wouldn’t have happened had JE still been in charge but if we look at how we fared against the same teams the previous season under JE, where applicable or, in the case of promoted/relegated teams, the teams who had the same or similar final league position the season before, then we get the following
Boro (A) JE lost 1-0 WR lost 1-0
Hull (H) JE lost 1-0 WR lost 2-0
S’hampton* (A) JE N/A WR lost 3-1 comparable JE game Norwich lost 3-1
Ipswich (H) JE N/A. WR drew 2-2 comparable JE game Rotherham won 2-0
Sund (A) JE lost 2-1 WR lost 3-1
Sheff W (H) JE N/A WR won 2-1 comparable JE game Sunderland - lost 2-1
B’burn (A) JE lost 2-1 WR lost 4-2
Based on that JE’s points tally would’ve been 3 and WR’s is 4 so we would have been 1 place lower than we are now but with a better goal difference. Nowhere near 6th though.
Ok so first thing.
My maths does stack up, please prove otherwise if you wanna make a comment like that, an extra 6 points (including beating hull or at least not losing) would put us 6th or 7th. (Depending on GD and also the Blackburn result)
Now secondly, you are really really clutching at stats & comparison there it’s embarrassing.
Let’s just take Eustaces 1.6 points per game average this season which over the 7 games Rooney has faced has given us 4 points, Eustace would have gotten 11.
Now you may say, ‘but look at us playing the top 6 blah blah blah’
Well in the only 2 games JE played against the current top 6 we won both of them, being West Brom and Leeds.
So please, please explain to me why I’m off on this? I’m dying to hear it.
Ok, so you said
Well, the first premise of the thread was about our players not being good enough for this system, the only way (sic) to reference the inaccuracy of that is to point back, how else do you want me to that? Or should I just blindly agree with everything..
so I pointed back to how JE actually did in reality against those teams the previous season, or a comparable team that was promoted/relegated. I’m not sure how that’s embarrassing or clutching at stats. Certainly no more so than the stats you’re deciding to use. Saying Eustace would’ve got 11 points against those 7 teams because he’d averaged 1.6 points in the previous 11 games is no more or less speculative than saying he’d have only gained 4 points because of how he faired in the same/similar games last season. It’s just as plausible that Eustace wouldn’t have won those games. His previous results against the same/similar teams is not markedly better than Rooney’s.
Also, despite his points average leading up to the end of the year, Eustace presided over a period between the end of December and the end of January where we lost 5 in a row, the joint worst run in Championship history apparently. Having a decent run and points average for part of the season doesn’t equate to that continuing in perpetuity so, as a stat to clutch at it’s probably more embarrassing than the stats I used.
Ergo, saying Eustace would currently have us sitting in 6th after the last 7 game is, on balance, unlikely and nowhere near being a fact.
No, you’re arguing theory, not my facts. As I said we had a bad December run, but still on the basis of what we’re talking about this season is more accurate, also as I pointed out we’ve played tough games but Eustace has done well in those higher games, so whilst I attributed less than his average of 1.6 games per game to my calculations, in theory against the top 6 of which Eustace played twice we had a 3 game point per average.
But what calculations we use is subjective I’ll give you that.
But are you honestly telling me right now, that we would have less points with Eustace? Or more accurately tell me how many more we would have?
And also with my stats against top 6, his ppg this year, and equivalent last year, it’s actually increasingly likely we would be top 6, id ask for your rationale but im sure it would be a waste of time.
Also going to ignore the rest of my comments?
There’s no shame in apologising fyi I’m not one to beat you up about it.
Why are people bringing uo last season?
We have a much better team this season, and with this season's players, eustace had us getting more points than rooney.
That could change, n we could be about to go a run where we win a few n pick up draws. But it doesn't look likely right now does it.
CastleBlueWhy are people bringing uo last season?
We have a much better team this season, and with this season's players, eustace had us getting more points than rooney.
That could change, n we could be about to go a run where we win a few n pick up draws. But it doesn't look likely right now does it.
/thread over. Thank you.
No, you’re arguing theory, not my facts. As I said we had a bad December run, but still on the basis of what we’re talking about this season is more accurate, also as I pointed out we’ve played tough games but Eustace has done well in those higher games, so whilst I attributed less than his average of 1.6 games per game to my calculations, in theory against the top 6 of which Eustace played twice we had a 3 game point per average.
But what calculations we use is subjective I’ll give you that.
But are you honestly telling me right now, that we would have less points with Eustace? Or more accurately tell me how many more we would have?
And also with my stats against top 6, his ppg this year, and equivalent last year, it’s actually increasingly likely we would be top 6, id ask for your rationale but im sure it would be a waste of time.
Also going to ignore the rest of my comments?
There’s no shame in apologising fyi I’m not one to beat you up about it.
So, I’m arguing theory not facts but your facts are, in fact, theorised? Ok…
Yes, the calculations we use are subjective. The difference is I’m saying it’s possible if not probable that we’d have fewer points whereas you’re stating as a fact that we’d have more points. It’s not a fact, it’s a possibility and could e argued as a probability.
What other comments of yours would you like me to respond to?
Why would I apologise? Neither can conclusively prove their point but, if anything, it’s you who should be apologetic seeing as how you’re adamant that you’re right and dealing with facts when you’re not. All I’ve argued is that it’s not a fact and there’s real world evidence to say it’s possible if not probable that JE would have fared no better than WR over th last 7 games.
So, both arguments are based on speculation but one is presented as fact, the other as a probability. JE isn’t the manager so what he may or may not have achieved is not and can never be a fact, only an opinion.
Docky91Docky91QBBC2LondonBlue- we’ve just not got good enough quality. And that’s the players problem not the Clubs or Fans. How on earth do some of them think they’ll ever be good enough for a top Championship side I’ll never know.
The problem with it being ‘the players problem’ and then ‘not being good enough’ is the fact that before a brainless decision by the board these same players were 6th in the league.
Some questions for you:
Where do you think we would currently be in the table if JE was still at the helm?
How quickly do you think the playing style/consistency of performance would have improved if JE was given more time?
Do you suffer from neck pain constantly looking backwards instead of forwards?
I think we would be at least 7th, he would have gotten 6 more points than Rooney has in this time and with the swing in GD and potential dropped points by Blackburn we’d be 7th. Actually scratch that, I think 6th as I think we’d also have gotten something against Hull.
I do not think we’re playing better football at all right now, and tbh I never even had an issue with Eustace, he utilised stand field in a far better way and that was beautiful to watch in itself, so that’s a nil point.
Well, the first premise of the thread was about our players not being good enough for this system, the only one to reference the inaccuracy of that is to point back, how else do you want me to that? Or should I just blindly agree with everything..
We would be 6th if we had won 2 extra games, that’s not the realms of fantasy, that’s fact (if hull was one of those games) under Eustace and what he showed I have every faith we would have.
Well the word ‘improved’ is definitely an indication of performance is it not? And it was a brainless decision by the owners, we had players that I believe could have gotten us into the playoffs under the system, and now mid table looks like an achievement and to get the better players for the system they want they will have to spend a lot of money, which we can’t do due to FFP. So yeah, brainless.
IMO opinion, if Rooney carries on as he is, which I sincerely hope he doesn’t, and goes, Cook has to go with him.
Unreal !!
If you think we are not changing our culture then you have not read the script have you??? You are in for a shock.
I can see what Les Dennis was trying to do in Strictly but he was still a shite dancer.
MiamiviceI can see what Les Dennis was trying to do in Strictly but he was still a shite dancer.
This sums it all up!
Previous comments regarding bielsa and komoany, both done in the championship with huge comparable budgets towards the decision, though I respect the acknowledgement of more failing than succeeding.
QBBC2No, you’re arguing theory, not my facts. As I said we had a bad December run, but still on the basis of what we’re talking about this season is more accurate, also as I pointed out we’ve played tough games but Eustace has done well in those higher games, so whilst I attributed less than his average of 1.6 games per game to my calculations, in theory against the top 6 of which Eustace played twice we had a 3 game point per average.
But what calculations we use is subjective I’ll give you that.
But are you honestly telling me right now, that we would have less points with Eustace? Or more accurately tell me how many more we would have?
And also with my stats against top 6, his ppg this year, and equivalent last year, it’s actually increasingly likely we would be top 6, id ask for your rationale but im sure it would be a waste of time.
Also going to ignore the rest of my comments?
There’s no shame in apologising fyi I’m not one to beat you up about it.
So, I’m arguing theory not facts but your facts are, in fact, theorised? Ok…
Yes, the calculations we use are subjective. The difference is I’m saying it’s possible if not probable that we’d have fewer points whereas you’re stating as a fact that we’d have more points. It’s not a fact, it’s a possibility and could e argued as a probability.
What other comments of yours would you like me to respond to?
Why would I apologise? Neither can conclusively prove their point but, if anything, it’s you who should be apologetic seeing as how you’re adamant that you’re right and dealing with facts when you’re not. All I’ve argued is that it’s not a fact and there’s real world evidence to say it’s possible if not probable that JE would have fared no better than WR over th last 7 games.
So, both arguments are based on speculation but one is presented as fact, the other as a probability. JE isn’t the manager so what he may or may not have achieved is not and can never be a fact, only an opinion.
Except, my stats are relative to this year, relative to this years too 6 and not making up ‘yeah but if we’d played this club’ like I said, clutching, it’s pathetic, other people have said it in this thread that it’s not worked but they want to believe, and that is fine no arguments, I hope it succeeds. But to use made up statistics equivalent to ‘if my Nan had wheels she’d be a bike’ is just ridiculous, give it a rest.
I can see what Les Dennis was trying to do in Strictly but he was still a shite dancer.
And as he wasn’t the choreographer I can only assume you’re referencing him as a comparison to some of our players rather than to Rooney as a coach.
Cook shouldn't go of it doesn't work out, he should just ensure he selects a possession based coach with a better track record and not worry about Instagram followers. Hopefully we get some more wins starting this weekend so we can all start talking about summer transfer wishlists instead.
Except, my stats are relative to this year, relative to this years too 6 and not making up ‘yeah but if we’d played this club’ like I said, clutching, it’s pathetic, other people have said it in this thread that it’s not worked but they want to believe, and that is fine no arguments, I hope it succeeds. But to use made up statistics equivalent to ‘if my Nan had wheels she’d be a bike’ is just ridiculous, give it a rest.
I apologise. Not because I think you’re right though, I’m apologising because I hadn’t realised you weren’t capable of understanding a fairly simple argument. I shouldn’t have wasted my time or yours on something that’s actually irrelevant. JE is gone. Even if it’s a “fact” that he would currently have us in 6th had he not been sacked he hasn’t because he can’t because he was sacked.
So, your stats are as irrelevant as your opinion. Let’s discuss it again either at the end of the season or if/when Rooney gets sacked, just for old times sake, eh?
Until then try to enjoy the ride but please remember you’re a passenger, not the navigator.