Iain_GavinTRCan absolutely see what he wants to do and I am 100% behind it…..just not the timing of the decision to start implementing it.
It’s such a dramatic change from JE and co, why pull the trigger on it mid - October?
Yeah this needed 6 weeks of pre season to get fitness tactics and patterns of play drilled in them. Here we’ve got 3 game weeks which means little time on the training ground, we’ve had 2 international breaks where half of Rooney’s staff go off for 10 days. It’s not a surprise it’s still a shambles, albeit with rays of positivity tonight
The thing I don’t get is the Rooney rumours came around soon after the takeover then went away until he was appointed. It’s clear Cooke had selected him, so why not get him pre season? If both parties were so bought into the project, why not get him out of DC rather than wait for his contract to expire. Is Wayne only here now because he failed to get them into the playoffs - if he’d have done a good job over there, would he have stayed?
This season has been written off by making that change in October which is galling after the off the field positivity and the on field success at the start of the season
Leeds in August seems a long time ago. The train i was on was packed that day(stratford line), lovely sunny day, Cov rd buzzing, pubs packed. It feels like yrs since we experienced that hope and excitement around the ground.
The only expectation i had was hopefully a good season and the general agreement around by me was that the ship needed steadying and top 10 would be good
All that seems gone now and another season written off as you say. That's what has really killed me, all that feel good factor dashed by one decision
In summary we had a manager who built a squad to play a certain way that suited the personnel and we were 6th.
We changed the manager to somebody who wants to play a way that doesn’t suit the squad and are now near the bottom.
Not rooneys fault, unbelievably poor management from the board. He needs to get the defence sorted ASAP. All top teams are built on defence.
Everbluesince92We are changing our culture massively from being "difficult to beat" and "competitive" to one that is on the front foot and progressive.
I.e we can't concede if we keep the ball or they can't get close to our goal because we've pressed and penned them into their own half instead of playing a low block.
Problem is right now we don't quite the keep ball well enough or engage in the press together which is why at times we look so open. But it is something we will improve at either with the players we have because they've learned or with new players because the current ones couldn't adapt.
We are starting to see who can and can't do it and they aren't really any shocks in either camp although maybe I thought Bielik wouldn't be struggling like he is.
I've always found that when watching man city, they look susceptible to every teams attack once that first press is beaten. It just doesn't happen very often because they are so good at the press/they've worn down the opposition enough that they are unable to capitalise on the few opportunities they get. We just get played through 4 or 5 times a game as opposed to 1 for man city.
Well if we’re quoting previous posters and talking about fact and fiction.
We’re not changing our culture, you’re ‘hoping’ we are going to change our culture. All we have succeeded in thus far is going from ‘competitive’ and ‘difficult to beat’ to ‘uncompetitive’ and ‘easy to beat’
Plenty have teams have tried to make this adjustment; particularly in the premier league, and more often than not it fails and they get relegated.
You should never ever try to change the culture of a football team in one fell swoop it needs to be gradual and over time, this is the difference between the likes of Brentford and Brighton to the likes of Bournemouth and West Brom. These teams that have survived a certain way and suddenly get these delusions of grandeur to being the next attractive football team, only to be relegated. Just because they try and change too quickly.
There was a comment in the original post about the ‘problem’ being the players, imo they are the least of the problem and they have been treated most unfairly of all, these players signed contracts, deals or loans on the basis of playing for a certain manager in a certain way, under the presumption, as we all have in our working life, that if you perform well you will be ok, and they upheld their end of the bargain, and then all of a sudden the rug was pulled under their feet, and now people wanna blame them? In what world is that remotely fair?
I think what you're trying to say (and i agree with your point) is that it's better to be brilliant at something and concentrate on that than be mediocre at something and take that as your chosen path.
I can talk forever about things i know a lot about and have an interest in - but quite often subjects come up and i know that i know feck all about it so i just keep quiet and listen to what those who DO know about have to say
QBBC2No, I’m happy to leave it there
Any chance you fancy coming back and try to explain to me what ‘rOoNeY is tRyiNG to Do?’
Everyone going on about he needs to sign his own players, then why is he managing this group of players in the first place?!? This team has more than enough in it to be performing better than it is.
Terrible decision to bring him in when we did, this is more on Cooke than it is Rooney. Although I have little confidence in either. If they both went I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered.
DaveEveryone going on about he needs to sign his own players, then why is he managing this group of players in the first place?!? This team has more than enough in it to be performing better than it is.
Terrible decision to bring him in when we did, this is more on Cooke than it is Rooney. Although I have little confidence in either. If they both went I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered.
Exactly what I said earlier, Cook should be hitched to this wagon and if Rooney goes he should to.
I’m quite a black and white person and only one of three things has happened here with regards to Rooney not performing (unless anyone can correct me)
Let’s remember he was linked since the summer so almost certainly knew in July he was gonna get it
1) he misjudged the ability of the players, therefore he can’t judge ability, he shouldn’t be in role.
2) he over estimated his and his coaches ability
To coach players and improve their ability, therefore he shouldn’t be in role:
3) he’s a crap manager, therefore he shouldn’t be in role.
Before anyone says about ‘time’ this has been 1/6 of our season now, you can’t afford to waste that time, and we have close to another 1/6 to go before he can even sign someone, and who knows if he’s even any good at that.
DaveEveryone going on about he needs to sign his own players, then why is he managing this group of players in the first place?!? This team has more than enough in it to be performing better than it is.
Terrible decision to bring him in when we did, this is more on Cooke than it is Rooney. Although I have little confidence in either. If they both went I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered.
Exactly what I said earlier, Cook should be hitched to this wagon and if Rooney goes he should to.
I’m quite a black and white person and only one of three things has happened here with regards to Rooney not performing (unless anyone can correct me)
Let’s remember he was linked since the summer so almost certainly knew in July he was gonna get it
1) he misjudged the ability of the players, therefore he can’t judge ability, he shouldn’t be in role.
2) he over estimated his and his coaches ability
To coach players and improve their ability, therefore he shouldn’t be in role:
3) he’s a crap manager, therefore he shouldn’t be in role.
Before anyone says about ‘time’ this has been 1/6 of our season now, you can’t afford to waste that time, and we have close to another 1/6 to go before he can even sign someone, and who knows if he’s even any good at that.
How much time would you give a manager and his coaching staff if he had a good cv and track record of judging ability but had the same run of results in his first dozen games?
Asking for the next manager.
QBBC2DaveEveryone going on about he needs to sign his own players, then why is he managing this group of players in the first place?!? This team has more than enough in it to be performing better than it is.
Terrible decision to bring him in when we did, this is more on Cooke than it is Rooney. Although I have little confidence in either. If they both went I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered.
Exactly what I said earlier, Cook should be hitched to this wagon and if Rooney goes he should to.
I’m quite a black and white person and only one of three things has happened here with regards to Rooney not performing (unless anyone can correct me)
Let’s remember he was linked since the summer so almost certainly knew in July he was gonna get it
1) he misjudged the ability of the players, therefore he can’t judge ability, he shouldn’t be in role.
2) he over estimated his and his coaches ability
To coach players and improve their ability, therefore he shouldn’t be in role:
3) he’s a crap manager, therefore he shouldn’t be in role.
Before anyone says about ‘time’ this has been 1/6 of our season now, you can’t afford to waste that time, and we have close to another 1/6 to go before he can even sign someone, and who knows if he’s even any good at that.
How much time would you give a manager and his coaching staff if he had a good cv and track record of judging ability but had the same run of results in his first dozen games?
Asking for the next manager.
Same amount of time.
I'm curious, why do you want to give more time than a dozen games to a manager who is producing worse performances than the previous one, scoring less, conceding more and just to top it off, can barely win a game of football which has taken us from 6th to nervously looking over shoulders. What has you itching for more?
If performances were good i could sort of understand, but they haven't been. They have been utter shit and that is putting it mildly. Every single footballing fact proves this before you say 'well i think we have been good'.
Docky91DaveEveryone going on about he needs to sign his own players, then why is he managing this group of players in the first place?!? This team has more than enough in it to be performing better than it is.
Terrible decision to bring him in when we did, this is more on Cooke than it is Rooney. Although I have little confidence in either. If they both went I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered.
Exactly what I said earlier, Cook should be hitched to this wagon and if Rooney goes he should to.
I’m quite a black and white person and only one of three things has happened here with regards to Rooney not performing (unless anyone can correct me)
Let’s remember he was linked since the summer so almost certainly knew in July he was gonna get it
1) he misjudged the ability of the players, therefore he can’t judge ability, he shouldn’t be in role.
2) he over estimated his and his coaches ability
To coach players and improve their ability, therefore he shouldn’t be in role:
3) he’s a crap manager, therefore he shouldn’t be in role.
Before anyone says about ‘time’ this has been 1/6 of our season now, you can’t afford to waste that time, and we have close to another 1/6 to go before he can even sign someone, and who knows if he’s even any good at that.
I'm probably Cooks biggest critic on here, but I don't think if Rooney fails he should automatically go with him.
He is clearly at the head of an enormous overhaul of every aspect of the club, of which the Mens 1st team is one part (albeit the most important). I believe he's made a massive error in the appointment of Rooney, and the way he was appointed was not "world class" in any way. But he's clearly an experience leader and football administrator, and his leadership in overhauling every aspect of the club will be vital. When it comes to replacing Rooney (which I think is when, not if) he has to show that he can lead a talent ID and recruitment campaign involving Gardner and others that scours the world to find the most suitable person to lead us forward, not just hand select someone, especially someone he has a personal connection with
CastleBlueQBBC2DaveEveryone going on about he needs to sign his own players, then why is he managing this group of players in the first place?!? This team has more than enough in it to be performing better than it is.
Terrible decision to bring him in when we did, this is more on Cooke than it is Rooney. Although I have little confidence in either. If they both went I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered.
Exactly what I said earlier, Cook should be hitched to this wagon and if Rooney goes he should to.
I’m quite a black and white person and only one of three things has happened here with regards to Rooney not performing (unless anyone can correct me)
Let’s remember he was linked since the summer so almost certainly knew in July he was gonna get it
1) he misjudged the ability of the players, therefore he can’t judge ability, he shouldn’t be in role.
2) he over estimated his and his coaches ability
To coach players and improve their ability, therefore he shouldn’t be in role:
3) he’s a crap manager, therefore he shouldn’t be in role.
Before anyone says about ‘time’ this has been 1/6 of our season now, you can’t afford to waste that time, and we have close to another 1/6 to go before he can even sign someone, and who knows if he’s even any good at that.
How much time would you give a manager and his coaching staff if he had a good cv and track record of judging ability but had the same run of results in his first dozen games?
Asking for the next manager.
Same amount of time.
I'm curious, why do you want to give more time than a dozen games to a manager who is producing worse performances than the previous one, scoring less, conceding more and just to top it off, can barely win a game of football which has taken us from 6th to nervously looking over shoulders. What has you itching for more?
If performances were good i could sort of understand, but they haven't been. They have been utter shit and that is putting it mildly. Every single footballing fact proves this before you say 'well i think we have been good'.
I reckon the next appointment would get more time because the usual sporting convention that you replace your manager when you’re doing badly would have been restored. The fact we didn’t do that here is the basic reason it’s been ripe for toxicity as soon as the results were poor - let alone 5 points from 24 levels of poor, which I don’t think even those saying it’s ‘another Zola’ really thought would happen.
QBBC2DaveEveryone going on about he needs to sign his own players, then why is he managing this group of players in the first place?!? This team has more than enough in it to be performing better than it is.
Terrible decision to bring him in when we did, this is more on Cooke than it is Rooney. Although I have little confidence in either. If they both went I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered.
Exactly what I said earlier, Cook should be hitched to this wagon and if Rooney goes he should to.
I’m quite a black and white person and only one of three things has happened here with regards to Rooney not performing (unless anyone can correct me)
Let’s remember he was linked since the summer so almost certainly knew in July he was gonna get it
1) he misjudged the ability of the players, therefore he can’t judge ability, he shouldn’t be in role.
2) he over estimated his and his coaches ability
To coach players and improve their ability, therefore he shouldn’t be in role:
3) he’s a crap manager, therefore he shouldn’t be in role.
Before anyone says about ‘time’ this has been 1/6 of our season now, you can’t afford to waste that time, and we have close to another 1/6 to go before he can even sign someone, and who knows if he’s even any good at that.
How much time would you give a manager and his coaching staff if he had a good cv and track record of judging ability but had the same run of results in his first dozen games?
Asking for the next manager.
Same amount of time.
I'm curious, why do you want to give more time than a dozen games to a manager who is producing worse performances than the previous one, scoring less, conceding more and just to top it off, can barely win a game of football which has taken us from 6th to nervously looking over shoulders. What has you itching for more?
If performances were good i could sort of understand, but they haven't been. They have been utter shit and that is putting it mildly. Every single footballing fact proves this before you say 'well i think we have been good'.
Personally I think he should have more time because, sometimes, improvement takes time. I’m ok with that. I’m willing to trust that the work going on behind the scenes is sincerely dedicated to long term, sustainable growth and that, while immediate gains would be nice, they’re often a sign of just papering over the cracks. How many times have you seen that accusation on here over the years? The new owners and manager aren’t here to paper over cracks. They’re not even here to fill the cracks and redecorate, they’re here to rebuild properly from the foundations up because they understand that it’s the only way to improve success sustainably. That takes time. It also takes bravery given the fickle nature of the modern day fan.
I think they, that’s Rooney and the squad, should be given not only more time but a lot more understanding and a more supportive environment from the fans because it’s easier to learn and progress and be motivated in a positive environment. Support and constructive criticism are key, from everyone - owners, managers, club staff and supporters.
I’m prepared to give them time and trust because I’m not afraid of failure. I’m not afraid of change. I’m not afraid of the opinions of people who’ve never actually done what I’m trying to achieve. And if I do fail I learn from it and I know that, often, that learning doesn’t always yield immediate results and sometimes leads to more failures before I get it right.
I like the fact that both the new owners and Rooney are being open, honest and accessible. It’s what fans have been crying out for for years.
I trust in the plan and I’m ok waiting for the payoff. I’ve accepted that it needs time to bare fruit. They’re sowing seeds, not magic beans.
I trust that Rooney will improve things because, despite the current difficulties, people who are actually, genuinely “in the know” believe he has what it takes to succeed as a manager. For now I’ll take their opinion over the mewlings of a bunch of hysterical pipe fitters and office workers. And if he doesn’t I trust the owners to replace him when they’re sure the time is right, not as a knee jerk reaction to a slower than desirable start.
Very eloquently put indeed.
Out of interest, and assuming a worst case scenario if you will indulge me for a second, can we try to “quantify” what you mean?
At what point is your definition of failure confirmed, resulting in a change having to be made.
If we look with a few games to go to be in serious danger of being relegated?
If we are relegated?
If we go into league 2?
From my perspective it would be “previous” to make a change now. However I suspect we will be forced into it later this season.
What is happening on the pitch is utter chaos, with worse than Sunday league levels of defending, and no discernible patterns of play - basically massive regression in results and performances, individually and collectively.
Fine, give him time, but nothing I’ve seen so far gives me any confidence that, sadly, and I mean sadly, a change will not be necessary to prevent relegation.
What is your cut off point?
QBBC2QBBC2DaveEveryone going on about he needs to sign his own players, then why is he managing this group of players in the first place?!? This team has more than enough in it to be performing better than it is.
Terrible decision to bring him in when we did, this is more on Cooke than it is Rooney. Although I have little confidence in either. If they both went I wouldn’t be the slightest bit bothered.
Exactly what I said earlier, Cook should be hitched to this wagon and if Rooney goes he should to.
I’m quite a black and white person and only one of three things has happened here with regards to Rooney not performing (unless anyone can correct me)
Let’s remember he was linked since the summer so almost certainly knew in July he was gonna get it
1) he misjudged the ability of the players, therefore he can’t judge ability, he shouldn’t be in role.
2) he over estimated his and his coaches ability
To coach players and improve their ability, therefore he shouldn’t be in role:
3) he’s a crap manager, therefore he shouldn’t be in role.
Before anyone says about ‘time’ this has been 1/6 of our season now, you can’t afford to waste that time, and we have close to another 1/6 to go before he can even sign someone, and who knows if he’s even any good at that.
How much time would you give a manager and his coaching staff if he had a good cv and track record of judging ability but had the same run of results in his first dozen games?
Asking for the next manager.
Same amount of time.
I'm curious, why do you want to give more time than a dozen games to a manager who is producing worse performances than the previous one, scoring less, conceding more and just to top it off, can barely win a game of football which has taken us from 6th to nervously looking over shoulders. What has you itching for more?
If performances were good i could sort of understand, but they haven't been. They have been utter shit and that is putting it mildly. Every single footballing fact proves this before you say 'well i think we have been good'.
Personally I think he should have more time because, sometimes, improvement takes time. I’m ok with that. I’m willing to trust that the work going on behind the scenes is sincerely dedicated to long term, sustainable growth and that, while immediate gains would be nice, they’re often a sign of just papering over the cracks. How many times have you seen that accusation on here over the years? The new owners and manager aren’t here to paper over cracks. They’re not even here to fill the cracks and redecorate, they’re here to rebuild properly from the foundations up because they understand that it’s the only way to improve success sustainably. That takes time. It also takes bravery given the fickle nature of the modern day fan.
I think they, that’s Rooney and the squad, should be given not only more time but a lot more understanding and a more supportive environment from the fans because it’s easier to learn and progress and be motivated in a positive environment. Support and constructive criticism are key, from everyone - owners, managers, club staff and supporters.
I’m prepared to give them time and trust because I’m not afraid of failure. I’m not afraid of change. I’m not afraid of the opinions of people who’ve never actually done what I’m trying to achieve. And if I do fail I learn from it and I know that, often, that learning doesn’t always yield immediate results and sometimes leads to more failures before I get it right.
I like the fact that both the new owners and Rooney are being open, honest and accessible. It’s what fans have been crying out for for years.
I trust in the plan and I’m ok waiting for the payoff. I’ve accepted that it needs time to bare fruit. They’re sowing seeds, not magic beans.
I trust that Rooney will improve things because, despite the current difficulties, people who are actually, genuinely “in the know” believe he has what it takes to succeed as a manager. For now I’ll take their opinion over the mewlings of a bunch of hysterical pipe fitters and office workers. And if he doesn’t I trust the owners to replace him when they’re sure the time is right, not as a knee jerk reaction to a slower than desirable start.
👏
Very eloquently put indeed.
Out of interest, and assuming a worst case scenario if you will indulge me for a second, can we try to “quantify” what you mean?
At what point is your definition of failure confirmed, resulting in a change having to be made.
If we look with a few games to go to be in serious danger of being relegated?
If we are relegated?
If we go into league 2?
From my perspective it would be “previous” to make a change now. However I suspect we will be forced into it later this season.
What is happening on the pitch is utter chaos, with worse than Sunday league levels of defending, and no discernible patterns of play - basically massive regression in results and performances, individually and collectively.
Fine, give him time, but nothing I’ve seen so far gives me any confidence that, sadly, and I mean sadly, a change will not be necessary to prevent relegation.
What is your cut off point?
I don’t have a cut off point tbh. I don’t know what the owners definition of failure is but failure, to me, is either not learning or giving up. Trying isn’t failure. Teething problems aren’t failure. Taking time to get it right isn’t failure. Panicking and knee jerk reactions are failure.
Rooney’s inherited a squad of crocks, misfits and journeymen and he’s struggling to implement his ideas. From what I’ve read and heard from those privy to what’s going on behind the scenes I’m of the opinion that it’s not Rooney that is the problem so much as the squad he has inherited but until Rooney has had both time and at least two transfer windows I cannot fairly judge whether it’s him or the squad. If that time includes relegation then so be it. I’ll leave it to the board to decide if Rooney should stay or go.
We’ve been relegated before and came back, with far worse owners, and even reached the Prem despite our foundations being made of sand. This time we’re building properly so any “failure” can’t properly be judged until the boards long term plans either have or haven’t materialised, with or without Rooney at the helm.