If you believe in Wayne and think he’ll come good then fair play to you. I respect that, but my opinion is I don’t see it, and the results and performances would agree. On balance of current form and performance we’re going nowhere but down the table and into a relegation fight. If I’m wrong and he’s the second coming then I’ll hold my hands up and say I got it wrong.
In relation to the JE stuff, i didn’t think we’d stay in 6th, it was a false position, but I also believed we’d be safe in mid table. Can’t say that with certainty now. You may say it’s revisionist in regards to a couple of good performances, but those couple of performances are more than we’ve managed under Rooney.
"I don’t have a cut off point tbh. I don’t know what the owners definition of failure is but failure, to me, is either not learning or giving up. Trying isn’t failure. Teething problems aren’t failure. Taking time to get it right isn’t failure. Panicking and knee jerk reactions are failure."
No cut off point. Not ever.
"Just keep trying, boys, cos trying isn't failure". Wow.
From my perspective I hope that the owners do have a cut off point, and that it is in enough time to allow a replacement to keep us in this division (should it come to that)
I still hope that it doesn't.
As a chairman/owner you would be a (journeyman) manager's dream - just keep trying. Not for me though - not for my football team, or in life in general
I wouldn't want to work for someone else anyway, but if I did I would want it to be for someone who makes it very clear what the definition of success, and therefore the definition of failure is for me in my role.
I would want to be an achiever, who makes success happen - a boss who was happy with "just keep trying" wouldn't really cut it for me. I wouldn't want to work for them, and I suspect that no one with real ambition would either
I hope and believe that our owners have a similar approach
Edit - incorrectly addressed to you CastleBlue - apologies
Of course, but one of the differences between the Rooney run of matches and the JE era was that under JE there are good performances to cherry pick...
Under our Wayne, of course, we did have an okay half against the world beaters that are Sheffield Wednesday...
So give him comparable time before making comparisons.
QBBC2QBBC2Rooney’s inherited a squad of crocks, misfits and journeymen
Who were winning games and looking set for a decent season.
The revision of people's opinions of the playing squad in order to defend world class wayne is genuinely hilarious.
No more or less hilarious than the revisionism of the Anti-Rooney types who’ve elevated JE to a level he’d only briefly touched, insisting that he would’ve kept us in 6th. He got booted because he was too negative in his approach and he didn’t throw the shackles off until he knew he was going. If he’d stayed it would have been another season of the same slow and steady style most fans were berating him for up until the Huddersfield and Albion games. Cherry picking a couple of good performances over the evidence of the rest of his time in charge is revisionism.
Not many sensible fans have insisted that JE would have kept us in 6th or get us up?
In fact, Most were happy to 'steady the ship' (after the chinese ownership) and hopefully a top 10 finish.
I think we have now sadly missed out on a decent season , without necessarily getting to playoffs
I wasn’t replying to the sensible fans 🤣
I was also happy to steady the ship and finish 10th
I don’t think we’ve missed out until it’s mathematically impossible though. I’m ok with waiting before I write the season or Rooney off.
"I don’t have a cut off point tbh. I don’t know what the owners definition of failure is but failure, to me, is either not learning or giving up. Trying isn’t failure. Teething problems aren’t failure. Taking time to get it right isn’t failure. Panicking and knee jerk reactions are failure."
No cut off point. Not ever.
"Just keep trying, boys, cos trying isn't failure". Wow.
From my perspective I hope that the owners do have a cut off point, and that it is in enough time to allow a replacement to keep us in this division (should it come to that)
I still hope that it doesn't.
As a chairman/owner you would be a (journeyman) manager's dream - just keep trying. Not for me though - not for my football team, or in life in general
I wouldn't want to work for someone else anyway, but if I did I would want it to be for someone who makes it very clear what the definition of success, and therefore the definition of failure is for me in my role.
I would want to be an achiever, who makes success happen - a boss who was happy with "just keep trying" wouldn't really cut it for me. I wouldn't want to work for them, and I suspect that no one with real ambition would either
I hope and believe that our owners have a similar approach
Edit - incorrectly addressed to you CastleBlue - apologies
You didn’t really read past that first bit, did you? You were too busy forming your opinion to take in the rest. Not a good leadership quality but it ties in with the rest of your leadership qualities by the looks of it. I’m not doubting that you’re a success, I’m just glad I don’t work with you.
I don’t disagree about any of that Tam. I defended JE on here and thought his sacking was unnecessary and ridiculous but as the reasoning behind was revealed I understood and accepted it. I genuinely believe Rooney has enough about him to not only improve but to have us playing consistently entertaining football, given the time. He has the drive, he has the knowledge and now he’s being given the backing of a board who believe in him. He’s learning how to translate that knowledge so that his players can understand it and the more he learns and improves his message the better suited he’ll be to understanding who can and can’t do what he wants. They will be replaced. Slowly thanks to FFP rules and our current revenue levels. As it would be under any manager taking the job.
As far as I’m aware the board are backing Rooney 100% until such time as they know it needs to change. Cook isn’t some newbie who doesn’t understand football and the money won’t wait forever to see improvements but binning Rooney now would be a bigger mistake than keeping him on imo
Believe me I read it all very carefully, and I considered my reply equally carefully, trying to make sure that I kept it as "impersonal" as possible. Sometimes, of course, that does not always guarantee a reply in a similar vein. That's life I guess. I think I'll leave it there.
"As far as I’m aware the board are backing Rooney 100% until such time as they know it needs to change. Cook isn’t some newbie who doesn’t understand football and the money won’t wait forever to see improvements but binning Rooney now would be a bigger mistake than keeping him on imo"
Agree with this by the way.
QBBC2I don’t disagree about any of that Tam. I defended JE on here and thought his sacking was unnecessary and ridiculous but as the reasoning behind was revealed I understood and accepted it. I genuinely believe Rooney has enough about him to not only improve but to have us playing consistently entertaining football, given the time. He has the drive, he has the knowledge and now he’s being given the backing of a board who believe in him. He’s learning how to translate that knowledge so that his players can understand it and the more he learns and improves his message the better suited he’ll be to understanding who can and can’t do what he wants. They will be replaced. Slowly thanks to FFP rules and our current revenue levels. As it would be under any manager taking the job.
As far as I’m aware the board are backing Rooney 100% until such time as they know it needs to change. Cook isn’t some newbie who doesn’t understand football and the money won’t wait forever to see improvements but binning Rooney now would be a bigger mistake than keeping him on imo
Yep, that's all fair. I'm probably a bit more sceptical as to whether Rooney will have what it takes, but that's based on his management record to date and not much else. As you say, binning him now would cause more problems than it solves - my concern is that (if performances and, probably more important, results) don't improve, then toxicity from the terraces might make the position untenable. I'll be totally honest and say that my enjoyment of the season has been knocked back a bit by events (and I don't mean the post-JE results) but I do get that it's the 'bigger picture'. I've been waiting since February 1968, so a couple more years or so won't hurt, assuming that I hold out for long enough!
The post you replied to earlier
I don’t have a cut off point tbh. I don’t know what the owners definition of failure is but failure, to me, is either not learning or giving up. Trying isn’t failure. Teething problems aren’t failure. Taking time to get it right isn’t failure. Panicking and knee jerk reactions are failure.
Rooney’s inherited a squad of crocks, misfits and journeymen and he’s struggling to implement his ideas. From what I’ve read and heard from those privy to what’s going on behind the scenes I’m of the opinion that it’s not Rooney that is the problem so much as the squad he has inherited but until Rooney has had both time and at least two transfer windows I cannot fairly judge whether it’s him or the squad. If that time includes relegation then so be it. I’ll leave it to the board to decide if Rooney should stay or go.
We’ve been relegated before and came back, with far worse owners, and even reached the Prem despite our foundations being made of sand. This time we’re building properly so any “failure” can’t properly be judged until the boards long term plans either have or haven’t materialised, with or without Rooney at the helm.
I didn’t say what I thought the board should do, their, or Rooney’s definition of success, their cut off point or even what I would do if it was up to me. I just gave my definition of failure. You kept your reply “impersonal” by being incredulous that I think trying equates to success and that I’d be a journeyman managers dream, implying that I’d be weak and happy as long as they tried. All assumptions made by a seemingly “alpha male” ego and all wrong.
But that’s life I guess. You’re welcome to leave it there.
I think they, that’s Rooney and the squad, should be given not only more time but a lot more understanding and a more supportive environment from the fans because it’s easier to learn and progress and be motivated in a positive environment. Support and constructive criticism are key, from everyone - owners, managers, club staff and supporters.
Do you mean that we should be more Ultra, palace-like with our support? Can you recommend a drum and which colour flare I should bring along?
Edwin". Cook isn’t some newbie who doesn’t understand football "
Agree with this by the way.
I think a few may disagree with this. With regard to 'on field' happenings i don't think cooke could have got more things wrong if he tried
* Allowed incoming signings in summer when they knew manager was getting the boot
* Classless statement having have pop at JE
* Putting WR under immediate pressure with statements like 'no fear' football
* Changing manager partway through the season giving WR no 'pre season'
* Thinking a whole new style can be implemented partway through a season
* No consideration that any changes may upset a tight knit camp
Anyone who knows football wouldn't have done any of the above. He might know finances
but he doesn't know football
I wouldn't let cooke near my old subbuteo set
I'm in New Zealand and can't easily get to games, Open Houses etc. I don't tend to comment here as don't have much useful to add.
But I agree with QBBC2. There's a lot to be done, it won't be done quickly, and there's more chance of success if they have our support.
Also recent developments at the club look pretty positive from here (results apart).
The company is ambitious. They have put a lot of money into this and are working hard. They have chosen Wayne Rooney and his team. They will have valid reasons for that. The executive team is impressive. They are making repairs and putting infrastructure in place.
I'm sure they want it to succeed as desperately as we do.
I accept the coaching appointment may not work. It's a competitive industry after all. Every other team in the game wants you to lose, and luck plays a big part. Or the coaching team may not be given the time they need. But their task will be much much harder if we surround them with negativity.
Remember, new appointments don't always succeed immediately. Of the first 2 examples I looked for, Alex Ferguson won 3 of his first 9 and Mikel Arteta 2 of his first 9. Success isn't inevitable, and I'm not drawing parallels, but those managers were also arguably working with better players.
I'm not naive. I'm not advocating blind faith. But I agree with QBBC2. I would like everyone to just be a bit more positive. It would be more fun and the club would likely be more successful.
PS I fully appreciate others won't share my opinion. I appreciate everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not looking to change others' opinions, or looking for a row, just expressing a view.
PS2 apologies if I have unfairly characterised or summarised QBB2's view.