16:52, Sun 3 Dec
Both things can be true.

You can (1) be happy that the new owners are taking the club in the right direction big picture wise and (2) think that appointing Rooney was a blunder in the near term.

It does not have to be both!

Absolutely
16:52, Sun 3 Dec
I agree with you about the future, and supporting club home and away. However, I’m not sure on the pining for JE comment. Me personally, obviously I disagreed with the decision, and didn’t rate Rooney as an adequate replacement, but if he came in and got us playing better football and getting better results I’d have soon forgot about JE. As it happens he’s done neither imo, so of course the previous manager is going to keep getting brought up.
Beyond a Boundary
Both things can be true.

You can (1) be happy that the new owners are taking the club in the right direction big picture wise and (2) think that appointing Rooney was a blunder in the near term.

It does not have to be both!

Equally you can question the appointment of Rooney whilst agreeing with the replacement of his predecessor.
That is also true, but the key question now is how long do you stick with Rooney if results stay as they have been since his appointment.
The key question is who do you replace him with?

Obviously there are never any guarantees with any appointment but we really cannot afford another dubious choice.
Beyond a Boundary
That is also true, but the key question now is how long do you stick with Rooney if results stay as they have been since his appointment.
Does ‘you’mean us as fans or the owners?
Tony Fantastico
Beyond a Boundary
That is also true, but the key question now is how long do you stick with Rooney if results stay as they have been since his appointment.

Its all about the transfer window for me. Get rid now and give a more proven manager the window in Jan

Or

If Rooney gets the window then it will have to work otherwise if he goes in March, then the new manager has not long to work with Rooneys players to rescue us.

Tough call. Maybe owners see where are in new yr and call it
Either / or - don't they both influence the club?
If we are to believe what we have been told about being professional and having a direction of travel then the January window will have already been as sorted as it can be , targets for the positions we need strengthening within our budget will have been identified to the liking of Rooney .

It will be interesting to see how January pans out and i think the transfer window will show how much faith the owners have in their manager
Beyond a Boundary
Either / or - don't they both influence the club?
Fans very little compared to owners. This lot have proven that.
On a matchday we influence what happens in the game probably as much or more than the owners though regularly
Tony Fantastico
19:52, Sun 3 Dec
Edwin
This is my two-penneth, but first things first, because I know very well how this place works.........
I have been a reader for many years - and spend a lot of time on this site - certainly too much for my wife's liking!
I've been a die-hard Blues fan for more than 50 years.
Stupidly I still let it ruin my life when things are going badly.
All I want is my team to do well - I have no interest in "proving points". So, that's the preamble.

I admit to being nervous before WR was appointed - it had the reek of nepotism, and there was nothing in his record to suggest he would improve things. Also, as an aside, he doesn't "need" to succeed in the way that same way that some unknown guy at, say Gillingham would do - his reputation will always get him a job somewhere.

Having said that I am willing to give him a chance.

His first game set alarm bells ringing. Although we only lost at the end, and by 1, we could quite easily have lost by 6 or 7.........as we could have done at Southampton, and Sunderland. In fact in every one of the last 8 games I would say we have been very fortunate not to have conceded quite a few more goals (per game) even than we have.
The decision to play Sunjic - who has proved effective this season as a destroyer-type CENTRAL midfielder - as a right-sided midfielder in that first game will be one I will never forget. To those who claim he didn't by then know the players I would say that if he hadn't, before that first game, watched every minute of our first 11 matches at least twice on video then his commitment is as questionable as his managerial record.

I would love him to succeed by the way, even now.

Unfortunately, as each game goes by I think the chances of that become further and further reduced.

Every team can have off games, for sure, but I can't remember seeing such defensive chaos week in week out, especially from a team that was previously solid.

Those who defend Rooney have done so with things such as the following 8, which I have now seen time after time:

- "Those first 5 games were tough" - whereas I see no discernible difference in the "average" league positions of the teams that Rooney has played v his predecessor. We have of, course, played the 2 bottom teams in the league at home under him, and could conceivably have lost both - today it was miraculous that we did not lose. Rooney himself has admitted that we were fortunate not to lose.

- "The players aren't good enough" - I along with many other fans was delighted and amazed at the quality of some of the players that we signed in the summer. The players were performing, were confident, and were getting results. Those same players now look nervous, disjointed, and even the technical ones are failing. I love Miyoshi for instance , but how many times did he misplace easy passes today? As for the deterioration in Sanderson, Stansfield, Bielik........

- "It's not the same as under Zola" - this is one I would have to agree with actually. The players that Rooney now has are light years away from those Zola had to work with, and then of course there is the whole ownership/infrastructure/"feel-good" factor, which are several million light years away from what surrounded Zola.

-"We are making progress" - This, I'm afraid is absolute nonsense/wishful thinking. There has been one match - Ipswich, where we had a good, a VERY good 45 minutes. That's what it was - I keep seeing 60 minutes, 70 minutes etc. Watch it back - right from the start of the 2nd half we stopped pressing - we had been ALL over them 1st half - absolutely smothered them. Gradually we got pinned further and further back, and in the end, whilst it would have been a travesty, we COULD have lost that game. Some people point to Blackburn as a good performance. We played some good stuff at times, yes, but we GAVE them FOUR goals, in ONE game - 3 of them in just over 10 minutes. If we are clinging on to that as a "good performance" God help us..........

- "It's our fault as supporters" - Is it REALLY? I can only speak for myself, but for the first 11 games of this season I was, for the first time in a long time genuinely excited by what I was seeing on the pitch, and looking forward to games more than ever - so there was great stuff on the pitch to match the exciting stuff off it. Not every game was great - but the football was much better than previous seasons, and we were a proper "credible" team, with a solidity to go with the better football. I came away from Preston, for instance, gutted that we had lost, but having witnessed one of the best performances I can remember from us in a LONG time. Ironically the 2 goals we conceded there WERE defensive mistakes, but they were glaring because they were anomalous (particularly in that game) where we defended just as well as we attacked. The difference under WR is that in every (away) game since he's been here we look like conceding every time the opposition have the ball in our half.
It's now getting to the stage (again) where I enjoy games much less. As I said above it kills me when we lose, but I could live with the odd defeat if I could see progress, if performances (in every part of the pitch) were getting better, as opposed to being much worse than previously.
I ALWAYS support the team on the pitch - I would never dream of anything else, but when performances AND results are as poor as they have become - especially when we have come from a position where both were much better - I think some "frustration" from some others is understandable.

- "Good on Rooney for calling the players out - they're paid a lot, and so he should". - Sorry - name me one successful manager that has publicly done anything other than back his players to the hilt. Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp would not/do not hear a word against their own players. I actually like his honesty - he is the only manager I can think of who properly answers questions honestly. I'm afraid, however, that I think it will harm his cause. As frustrating/prima-donna-ish as players can be I think that history shows us that calling out players PUBLICLY results in departures............of managers.

- "Don't worry - we will easily beat SW and Rotherham" - I am now REALLY worried. There is absolutely no way that this group of players should be performing this badly, We have played the 2 statistically worst teams in this league at home. Today we were very much second best, and were very fortunate not to lose the game. Against Sheffield we were significantly 2nd best in the first half, and overall probably "edged" the 2nd half. Before these games I was worried that we might actually lose both of them - not because I am an innate pessimist, but because we should know how football works. The players are confused, confidence is low - just because we are playing a team with a poor record we cannot expect to roll them over - as Blues fans we, more than anyone, should have learned that after the last few years of teams turning up to St Andrews and getting their first win in 3 months.

- "Rooney needs to be able to bring his own players in - these can't play his style" . These players are the best set of players we have had for some time. They were performing perfectly well - much, MUCH better at the very least, until he arrived. Whilst it is obviously imperative that we stay in this league if he can not get a tune out of these players I would be very concerned about spending more money on some different ones, when his managerial record (over his career - not just with us) does not exactly look like it guarantees that he will get a tune out of a different set of players.

I am worried that, far from showing signs of improvement, all I can see are signs of regression. The last 3 games have, I would argue, seen us being on the whole worse than the 2 bottom sides, and give 4 very preventable goals away in one half of football. The one "positive" in those last 3 games was that we showed a bit of fight/did not fold at Blackburn having gone 3 behind. Without being unkind to our players one has to wonder whether even that needs to be tempered with the idea that Blackburn quite probably lowered their intensity somewhat.

My fear is that Rooney will get us sucked into another relegation battle - (5 points from 8 games is no-hoper form) - how ironic given the massive improvements ownership-wise etc. I also fear that, especially since Cook apparently feels "got at" by the reaction to the appointment, he may not, if things continue to go badly, feel inclined to pull the trigger until it is too late.

We have got to hope, therefore, that Rooney and his team have both the inclination and the nouse to do whatever they feel necessary to turn this around. My feeling, and I desperately hope NOT to be proved right is that he does not, and that, because staying in this league is vital, as the new owners have made clear, that he WILL end up being fired. If that is the case, and I repeat again, I hope that it is not, we all need to hope that it does not happen too late.



Welcome to the board Edwin.


WORD FOR WORD THIS POST. Spot on
We spent the summer scrimping and eking out the money in from Chong and Jobe, with Dan saying that we are just about ok for FPP. Now we are going to get in WR's players to turn it around, or alternatively find £5m to sack him and his coaches and get a new messiah. It sounds wrong to me, WR needs to start managing this lot, they are decent for the division.