EdwinThis is my two-penneth, but first things first, because I know very well how this place works.........
I have been a reader for many years - and spend a lot of time on this site - certainly too much for my wife's liking!
I've been a die-hard Blues fan for more than 50 years.
Stupidly I still let it ruin my life when things are going badly.
All I want is my team to do well - I have no interest in "proving points". So, that's the preamble.
I admit to being nervous before WR was appointed - it had the reek of nepotism, and there was nothing in his record to suggest he would improve things. Also, as an aside, he doesn't "need" to succeed in the way that same way that some unknown guy at, say Gillingham would do - his reputation will always get him a job somewhere.
Having said that I am willing to give him a chance.
His first game set alarm bells ringing. Although we only lost at the end, and by 1, we could quite easily have lost by 6 or 7.........as we could have done at Southampton, and Sunderland. In fact in every one of the last 8 games I would say we have been very fortunate not to have conceded quite a few more goals (per game) even than we have.
The decision to play Sunjic - who has proved effective this season as a destroyer-type CENTRAL midfielder - as a right-sided midfielder in that first game will be one I will never forget. To those who claim he didn't by then know the players I would say that if he hadn't, before that first game, watched every minute of our first 11 matches at least twice on video then his commitment is as questionable as his managerial record.
I would love him to succeed by the way, even now.
Unfortunately, as each game goes by I think the chances of that become further and further reduced.
Every team can have off games, for sure, but I can't remember seeing such defensive chaos week in week out, especially from a team that was previously solid.
Those who defend Rooney have done so with things such as the following 8, which I have now seen time after time:
- "Those first 5 games were tough" - whereas I see no discernible difference in the "average" league positions of the teams that Rooney has played v his predecessor. We have of, course, played the 2 bottom teams in the league at home under him, and could conceivably have lost both - today it was miraculous that we did not lose. Rooney himself has admitted that we were fortunate not to lose.
- "The players aren't good enough" - I along with many other fans was delighted and amazed at the quality of some of the players that we signed in the summer. The players were performing, were confident, and were getting results. Those same players now look nervous, disjointed, and even the technical ones are failing. I love Miyoshi for instance , but how many times did he misplace easy passes today? As for the deterioration in Sanderson, Stansfield, Bielik........
- "It's not the same as under Zola" - this is one I would have to agree with actually. The players that Rooney now has are light years away from those Zola had to work with, and then of course there is the whole ownership/infrastructure/"feel-good" factor, which are several million light years away from what surrounded Zola.
-"We are making progress" - This, I'm afraid is absolute nonsense/wishful thinking. There has been one match - Ipswich, where we had a good, a VERY good 45 minutes. That's what it was - I keep seeing 60 minutes, 70 minutes etc. Watch it back - right from the start of the 2nd half we stopped pressing - we had been ALL over them 1st half - absolutely smothered them. Gradually we got pinned further and further back, and in the end, whilst it would have been a travesty, we COULD have lost that game. Some people point to Blackburn as a good performance. We played some good stuff at times, yes, but we GAVE them FOUR goals, in ONE game - 3 of them in just over 10 minutes. If we are clinging on to that as a "good performance" God help us..........
- "It's our fault as supporters" - Is it REALLY? I can only speak for myself, but for the first 11 games of this season I was, for the first time in a long time genuinely excited by what I was seeing on the pitch, and looking forward to games more than ever - so there was great stuff on the pitch to match the exciting stuff off it. Not every game was great - but the football was much better than previous seasons, and we were a proper "credible" team, with a solidity to go with the better football. I came away from Preston, for instance, gutted that we had lost, but having witnessed one of the best performances I can remember from us in a LONG time. Ironically the 2 goals we conceded there WERE defensive mistakes, but they were glaring because they were anomalous (particularly in that game) where we defended just as well as we attacked. The difference under WR is that in every (away) game since he's been here we look like conceding every time the opposition have the ball in our half.
It's now getting to the stage (again) where I enjoy games much less. As I said above it kills me when we lose, but I could live with the odd defeat if I could see progress, if performances (in every part of the pitch) were getting better, as opposed to being much worse than previously.
I ALWAYS support the team on the pitch - I would never dream of anything else, but when performances AND results are as poor as they have become - especially when we have come from a position where both were much better - I think some "frustration" from some others is understandable.
- "Good on Rooney for calling the players out - they're paid a lot, and so he should". - Sorry - name me one successful manager that has publicly done anything other than back his players to the hilt. Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp would not/do not hear a word against their own players. I actually like his honesty - he is the only manager I can think of who properly answers questions honestly. I'm afraid, however, that I think it will harm his cause. As frustrating/prima-donna-ish as players can be I think that history shows us that calling out players PUBLICLY results in departures............of managers.
- "Don't worry - we will easily beat SW and Rotherham" - I am now REALLY worried. There is absolutely no way that this group of players should be performing this badly, We have played the 2 statistically worst teams in this league at home. Today we were very much second best, and were very fortunate not to lose the game. Against Sheffield we were significantly 2nd best in the first half, and overall probably "edged" the 2nd half. Before these games I was worried that we might actually lose both of them - not because I am an innate pessimist, but because we should know how football works. The players are confused, confidence is low - just because we are playing a team with a poor record we cannot expect to roll them over - as Blues fans we, more than anyone, should have learned that after the last few years of teams turning up to St Andrews and getting their first win in 3 months.
- "Rooney needs to be able to bring his own players in - these can't play his style" . These players are the best set of players we have had for some time. They were performing perfectly well - much, MUCH better at the very least, until he arrived. Whilst it is obviously imperative that we stay in this league if he can not get a tune out of these players I would be very concerned about spending more money on some different ones, when his managerial record (over his career - not just with us) does not exactly look like it guarantees that he will get a tune out of a different set of players.
I am worried that, far from showing signs of improvement, all I can see are signs of regression. The last 3 games have, I would argue, seen us being on the whole worse than the 2 bottom sides, and give 4 very preventable goals away in one half of football. The one "positive" in those last 3 games was that we showed a bit of fight/did not fold at Blackburn having gone 3 behind. Without being unkind to our players one has to wonder whether even that needs to be tempered with the idea that Blackburn quite probably lowered their intensity somewhat.
My fear is that Rooney will get us sucked into another relegation battle - (5 points from 8 games is no-hoper form) - how ironic given the massive improvements ownership-wise etc. I also fear that, especially since Cook apparently feels "got at" by the reaction to the appointment, he may not, if things continue to go badly, feel inclined to pull the trigger until it is too late.
We have got to hope, therefore, that Rooney and his team have both the inclination and the nouse to do whatever they feel necessary to turn this around. My feeling, and I desperately hope NOT to be proved right is that he does not, and that, because staying in this league is vital, as the new owners have made clear, that he WILL end up being fired. If that is the case, and I repeat again, I hope that it is not, we all need to hope that it does not happen too late.
Thanks for posting this Edwin. It was a great read and if we're honest as a Blues collective it's how we all feel. The happy clappers haven't posted this evening oddly. Wouldn't it be fantastic if WR could get us firing on all cylinders. Sadly it's not going to happen is it. Personally I like to see the manager stood on the touch line all game shouting instructions and showing a bit of pashun. He needs to engage with the fans more, like BF did and send a message out saying we're all in this together. It would make for a better atmosphere at least. I think he feels embarrassed about his appointment slightly.
That’s just bizarre; flies in the face of everything he said in the week
Make you’re mind up man
And yeah Edwin your post is pretty much on the money
EdwinThis is my two-penneth, but first things first, because I know very well how this place works.........
I have been a reader for many years - and spend a lot of time on this site - certainly too much for my wife's liking!
I've been a die-hard Blues fan for more than 50 years.
Stupidly I still let it ruin my life when things are going badly.
All I want is my team to do well - I have no interest in "proving points". So, that's the preamble.
I admit to being nervous before WR was appointed - it had the reek of nepotism, and there was nothing in his record to suggest he would improve things. Also, as an aside, he doesn't "need" to succeed in the way that same way that some unknown guy at, say Gillingham would do - his reputation will always get him a job somewhere.
Having said that I am willing to give him a chance.
His first game set alarm bells ringing. Although we only lost at the end, and by 1, we could quite easily have lost by 6 or 7.........as we could have done at Southampton, and Sunderland. In fact in every one of the last 8 games I would say we have been very fortunate not to have conceded quite a few more goals (per game) even than we have.
The decision to play Sunjic - who has proved effective this season as a destroyer-type CENTRAL midfielder - as a right-sided midfielder in that first game will be one I will never forget. To those who claim he didn't by then know the players I would say that if he hadn't, before that first game, watched every minute of our first 11 matches at least twice on video then his commitment is as questionable as his managerial record.
I would love him to succeed by the way, even now.
Unfortunately, as each game goes by I think the chances of that become further and further reduced.
Every team can have off games, for sure, but I can't remember seeing such defensive chaos week in week out, especially from a team that was previously solid.
Those who defend Rooney have done so with things such as the following 8, which I have now seen time after time:
- "Those first 5 games were tough" - whereas I see no discernible difference in the "average" league positions of the teams that Rooney has played v his predecessor. We have of, course, played the 2 bottom teams in the league at home under him, and could conceivably have lost both - today it was miraculous that we did not lose. Rooney himself has admitted that we were fortunate not to lose.
- "The players aren't good enough" - I along with many other fans was delighted and amazed at the quality of some of the players that we signed in the summer. The players were performing, were confident, and were getting results. Those same players now look nervous, disjointed, and even the technical ones are failing. I love Miyoshi for instance , but how many times did he misplace easy passes today? As for the deterioration in Sanderson, Stansfield, Bielik........
- "It's not the same as under Zola" - this is one I would have to agree with actually. The players that Rooney now has are light years away from those Zola had to work with, and then of course there is the whole ownership/infrastructure/"feel-good" factor, which are several million light years away from what surrounded Zola.
-"We are making progress" - This, I'm afraid is absolute nonsense/wishful thinking. There has been one match - Ipswich, where we had a good, a VERY good 45 minutes. That's what it was - I keep seeing 60 minutes, 70 minutes etc. Watch it back - right from the start of the 2nd half we stopped pressing - we had been ALL over them 1st half - absolutely smothered them. Gradually we got pinned further and further back, and in the end, whilst it would have been a travesty, we COULD have lost that game. Some people point to Blackburn as a good performance. We played some good stuff at times, yes, but we GAVE them FOUR goals, in ONE game - 3 of them in just over 10 minutes. If we are clinging on to that as a "good performance" God help us..........
- "It's our fault as supporters" - Is it REALLY? I can only speak for myself, but for the first 11 games of this season I was, for the first time in a long time genuinely excited by what I was seeing on the pitch, and looking forward to games more than ever - so there was great stuff on the pitch to match the exciting stuff off it. Not every game was great - but the football was much better than previous seasons, and we were a proper "credible" team, with a solidity to go with the better football. I came away from Preston, for instance, gutted that we had lost, but having witnessed one of the best performances I can remember from us in a LONG time. Ironically the 2 goals we conceded there WERE defensive mistakes, but they were glaring because they were anomalous (particularly in that game) where we defended just as well as we attacked. The difference under WR is that in every (away) game since he's been here we look like conceding every time the opposition have the ball in our half.
It's now getting to the stage (again) where I enjoy games much less. As I said above it kills me when we lose, but I could live with the odd defeat if I could see progress, if performances (in every part of the pitch) were getting better, as opposed to being much worse than previously.
I ALWAYS support the team on the pitch - I would never dream of anything else, but when performances AND results are as poor as they have become - especially when we have come from a position where both were much better - I think some "frustration" from some others is understandable.
- "Good on Rooney for calling the players out - they're paid a lot, and so he should". - Sorry - name me one successful manager that has publicly done anything other than back his players to the hilt. Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp would not/do not hear a word against their own players. I actually like his honesty - he is the only manager I can think of who properly answers questions honestly. I'm afraid, however, that I think it will harm his cause. As frustrating/prima-donna-ish as players can be I think that history shows us that calling out players PUBLICLY results in departures............of managers.
- "Don't worry - we will easily beat SW and Rotherham" - I am now REALLY worried. There is absolutely no way that this group of players should be performing this badly, We have played the 2 statistically worst teams in this league at home. Today we were very much second best, and were very fortunate not to lose the game. Against Sheffield we were significantly 2nd best in the first half, and overall probably "edged" the 2nd half. Before these games I was worried that we might actually lose both of them - not because I am an innate pessimist, but because we should know how football works. The players are confused, confidence is low - just because we are playing a team with a poor record we cannot expect to roll them over - as Blues fans we, more than anyone, should have learned that after the last few years of teams turning up to St Andrews and getting their first win in 3 months.
- "Rooney needs to be able to bring his own players in - these can't play his style" . These players are the best set of players we have had for some time. They were performing perfectly well - much, MUCH better at the very least, until he arrived. Whilst it is obviously imperative that we stay in this league if he can not get a tune out of these players I would be very concerned about spending more money on some different ones, when his managerial record (over his career - not just with us) does not exactly look like it guarantees that he will get a tune out of a different set of players.
I am worried that, far from showing signs of improvement, all I can see are signs of regression. The last 3 games have, I would argue, seen us being on the whole worse than the 2 bottom sides, and give 4 very preventable goals away in one half of football. The one "positive" in those last 3 games was that we showed a bit of fight/did not fold at Blackburn having gone 3 behind. Without being unkind to our players one has to wonder whether even that needs to be tempered with the idea that Blackburn quite probably lowered their intensity somewhat.
My fear is that Rooney will get us sucked into another relegation battle - (5 points from 8 games is no-hoper form) - how ironic given the massive improvements ownership-wise etc. I also fear that, especially since Cook apparently feels "got at" by the reaction to the appointment, he may not, if things continue to go badly, feel inclined to pull the trigger until it is too late.
We have got to hope, therefore, that Rooney and his team have both the inclination and the nouse to do whatever they feel necessary to turn this around. My feeling, and I desperately hope NOT to be proved right is that he does not, and that, because staying in this league is vital, as the new owners have made clear, that he WILL end up being fired. If that is the case, and I repeat again, I hope that it is not, we all need to hope that it does not happen too late.
Thanks for posting this Edwin. It was a great read and if we're honest as a Blues collective it's how we all feel. The happy clappers haven't posted this evening oddly. Wouldn't it be fantastic if WR could get us firing on all cylinders. Sadly it's not going to happen is it. Personally I like to see the manager stood on the touch line all game shouting instructions and showing a bit of pashun. He needs to engage with the fans more, like BF did and send a message out saying we're all in this together. It would make for a better atmosphere at least. I think he feels embarrassed about his appointment slightly.
It’s not how we all feel as. “Blues Collective”
Who are these happy clappers? Name em, I’ll wait.
Apparently, according to the estimable Ian T, a Rooney Refusenick himself, shouting isn’t allowed.
It doesn’t matter how Rooney engages with this mythical collective he could kiss the badge after extracting it from Jukes arse, we aren’t all in it together, that much is fecking obvious.
Talking of the Zola comparisons today reminded me so much of a 0-0 we had at him to Forest relatively early in his tenure when Forest were near the bottom
and we just passed it around all day and never looked like scoring
Has anyone got a link to WR actually saying this? I’m about 9 pints deep so my Google powers are heavily diminished.
If it’s genuinely true then it’s a bastard disgrace, the fecker came in to a solid, well drilled if not unspectacular team and turned it in to the shite we saw today (and for the majority of his reign) but it was accepted as it will supposedly take time to achieve this mythical style of play that will see us to the pearly gates of the Premier League.
eff that, I’m tired of the excuse that it takes ages to play better football. We were playing better football than this shite under the DvB, players like Stansfield, Dembele, Miyoshi were electric before he came in and now they look laboured, scared to make a mistake.
The parallels to Zola are frightening, though from memory I can’t remember GZ publicly bashing the players that he’d turned to shit back then like Wazza has done from day one here.
Anyway that’s my rant over, off to get another Cruzcampo, fecking lovely tipple this.
Super HansHas anyone got a link to WR actually saying this? I’m about 9 pints deep so my Google powers are heavily diminished.
If it’s genuinely true then it’s a bastard disgrace, the fecker came in to a solid, well drilled if not unspectacular team and turned it in to the shite we saw today (and for the majority of his reign) but it was accepted as it will supposedly take time to achieve this mythical style of play that will see us to the pearly gates of the Premier League.
eff that, I’m tired of the excuse that it takes ages to play better football. We were playing better football than this shite under the DvB, players like Stansfield, Dembele, Miyoshi were electric before he came in and now they look laboured, scared to make a mistake.
The parallels to Zola are frightening, though from memory I can’t remember GZ publicly bashing the players that he’d turned to shit back then like Wazza has done from day one here.
Anyway that’s my rant over, off to get another Cruzcampo, fecking lovely tipple this.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Starts at around 49.10
He said the players were ‘not ready’ to play out from the back. It’s a subtle difference but he didnt say they’re not good enough. He also seemed to suggest, unless I misunderstood, he’d wanted to see less of it and for them to be more direct.
Subtle.
That’s the problem, right there. It’s illegal.
bluer than bluesIanTshdIanTshdjohnnyspexNeilMTo be honest I didn't disagree with much Rooney said in the interview, the question is how does he sort it out?
It was interesting that in Lee Buchanan's interview played before Rooney's he said "the players have to take responsibility", and for me that was the main issue today, too many players went hiding, you saw the difference when Jordan James came on, took the game by the scruff of the neck and tried to make things happen, others didn't.
This
Some proper cowardly stuff today but then when you can hear a pin drop in the ground you can see why they’re nervous.
Nervous ??
Ffs what total bilge !
These are meant to be professional athletes and are paid handsomely for it the most of them
Confidence is important in any walk of life, even more so in top level sport.
In any job if you have your confidence undermined by your manager you won't perform to the best of your abilities.
It's a crucial manegerial skill.....to build people's confidence so that you can get the best out of them.
So is having pride in your own self and performance
True, but the players look lost to me. They seem scared to make a mistake, and they know the manager (and the fans) will criticise them if they make another mistake.
They're human beings, it's natural to go hiding in those circumstances.
And isn't a stark difference from where they were under JE, which was a confident group who knew their roles and trusted their ability to do it.
I know the argument for change is that we'd never get up without a significant change in style (I disagree), but it's stupid to completely overhaul what was a competent system when you don't have the ability to completely overhaul your playing squad. Especially if Rooney has now reverted, which he's seemingly suggested he's doing (hallmarks of Zola).
It's stupid from Cook to have signed Eustace style players and then sack him and replace him with a manager who can't coach Eustace style players. The owners have done a lot of good work in a short space of time but IMO Cook has made a pig's ear of this.
This exactly
Rooney is not good enough to manage a club like Blues.
Rooney is not good enough to manage a club like Blues.
Best.Post.Eva.
He also said we have centre backs that don’t head the ball and it’s true neither Sanderson or Aiwu have the ability to win the first ball with their heads.
It’s not good enough.
WaggehAre we talking the first half now?I thought it was dreary, overly long and effing boring tbh.
Each to their own.
I have to admit I looked at the scoreboard with 24 minutes played and thought it must be close to half time. Then to rub it in there was 4 extra minutes at the end of it
Absolutely this. and from what I heard Fri Night he’s got no right calling out players on their performance. I’m sure there’s plenty ITK on here that can ask a few questions. 1st day back at Training after the Int break, I heard there was an incident. If true it’s a disgrace, and b4 anyone starts bitching, wake up and look at what you’re seeing on the pitch, something isn’t right at the moment.
Mr DriscollSuper HansHas anyone got a link to WR actually saying this? I’m about 9 pints deep so my Google powers are heavily diminished.
If it’s genuinely true then it’s a bastard disgrace, the fecker came in to a solid, well drilled if not unspectacular team and turned it in to the shite we saw today (and for the majority of his reign) but it was accepted as it will supposedly take time to achieve this mythical style of play that will see us to the pearly gates of the Premier League.
eff that, I’m tired of the excuse that it takes ages to play better football. We were playing better football than this shite under the DvB, players like Stansfield, Dembele, Miyoshi were electric before he came in and now they look laboured, scared to make a mistake.
The parallels to Zola are frightening, though from memory I can’t remember GZ publicly bashing the players that he’d turned to shit back then like Wazza has done from day one here.
Anyway that’s my rant over, off to get another Cruzcampo, fecking lovely tipple this.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Starts at around 49.10
He said the players were ‘not ready’ to play out from the back. It’s a subtle difference but he didnt say they’re not good enough. He also seemed to suggest, unless I misunderstood, he’d wanted to see less of it and for them to be more direct.[/quote
Sounded like a man making excuses to his boss. They’re not doing what l tell them, it’s not my fault. No wonder the team spirit is shot.