RagsThat's fair enough, but my concern is different to the discussion about whether to adopt an attitude of belief or pessimism. It's about the nuts and bolts of how Wayne Rooney manages to achieve his goal of changing the playing style right now, bearing in mind A) the players he has to work with B) the restrictions regarding switching the players who can't do it for better ones C) what the disruption means for our position in the league and how that might affect everyone involved if things take a lot of time to turn around.
It seems like a very high risk strategy. The reasoning for taking this risk, according to Wayne in his post-match interviews recently - "The teams that get out of this league, bar Luton, have the ball. Football has changed, especially in the championship. The teams who play football are normally the ones who win games." But when you look at what has happened when he has tried to thrust this change of playing style upon the team, it has really highlighted how difficult it is going to be to make this change all of a sudden.
He claims that because of this difficulty, he is "focussing on out of possession and being a horrible team to play against" and "then improve gradually with the ball". But so far it seems to have made us great to play against and not that horrible at all. It's quite possible to be a team with high rates of possession without forcing your goalkeeper to play it out from the back, but like so many other teams, their managers are obsessed with forcing this because it's the 'in thing' right now - even when there are no noticable benefits and the keeper keeps having a meltdown and passing to the opposing striker.
I hope we can make this transition to the new style work but I am concerned. I would be interested to hear from those who are confident about it - how do they see this working with the players we have and the financial restrictions we have?
Come on now ... " how do they see this working with the players we have and the financial restrictions we have?" ... you, me, and others haven't got a straight answer to that question for weeks now, so it's hardly likely to happen now. I thought our best play on Saturday came from transitions, especially when Ruddy threw the ball out quickly - and especially when it gave Dembele chance to get at his full back at speed, before the full back was set and ready - and not from the attemts at playing progressively where we looked slow, over deliberate and ponderous and when the opposition hten had time to set, adjust and combat what was very predictable. There was still too much space behind our full backs (not as much as before) and the gaps between Sanderson and Aiwu you could have driven the SW team bus through.
But you won't get an answer --- you'll get accused of thinking e.ustace was The Messiah, not backing Knighthead, being a Villa fan, being anti-Rooney, being a boo-boy, a mouth breather, a Luddite etc etc - but you won't get a reasoned answer - because there isn't a reasoned answer that i've heard.
That's why that gang on here will pounce and try and shut you down, because they have invessted so much into this that they have never stopped to think or consider things - but as Cook said tonight - it is right to question things when we don't think they are "world class". That's the only way the club can grow.
Cook doesn't want to be surrounded by "yes men" - but that doesn't register with most the posters on here
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Burnley tried something similar to what we are trying.
Move away from Dyche ball, hire an inexperienced manager to play a different style of play. They had the benefit of parachute money but they failed to win their first four games.
The thinking is... WR will bring in more money. More money means we can buy better players. In the meantime, him and his team of young and well thought of coaches will try and improve the players we have.
We're not trying to teach them a new sport. The defense get less protection in order to have more attacking threat. Wanting to play a more attacking way, doesn't mean you will automatically win games. But they believe that this season is safe and want to allow enough time to see what players can adapt. The ones who can't will be upgraded next summer with the extra money brought in and the money we save when contracts run out.
Explain to me how you would improve a style of play if you spend the next year playing to mediocre players strengths only?
Not misinterpreting anything. You just used JE's stint as manager of Kidderminster and WR's supposed friendship as your main argument.
You have ignored that with limited resources WR has improved statistics like possession at both of his clubs. If it wasn't for a -21 point deduction, he would have finished above us that season as a 36 year old manager with Jagielka and Curtis Davis as his main defense and a team made up of kids. But that's irrelevant right?
Tonight the board have talked massively about improving revenue, so they have decided that not only can WR do that, but he is at least equally experienced in Championship management as JE.
Maybe that decision means we not only don't fail FFP, but we get money to spend and improve. Maybe they have a lucrative commercial deal which relied on promises of a higher profile manager? May e even Undeafted.
I for one, won't write Cook off for a manager appointment which is less than 2 months in, especially considering all the other improvements that have gone on so far.
WTF ??? you obviously missed my post calling Cook the best CEO in British football. Does that sound like i'm "writing Cook off"
You also obviously missed Wagner telling the world that if it wasn't for E.utace over performing last year and keeping us up then Knighthead would have walked away from buying Blues. In many ways Eustace saved Blues as much as Jude Belingham did
You also obviously missed that E.ustace, on ALL current evidence, got more out of the same resources than Rooney has.
Oh i give up - arguing with the exact people who Cook said he didn't want around him - like you - is a complete waste of time.
Thankfully i have chosen to back Rooney out of faith and not some imaginary dreamt up bollox.
Explain to me how you would improve a style of play if you spend the next year playing to mediocre players strengths only?
sigh .... one big problem. As stats PROVE - we are not more attacking now than we were under E.ustace ... but to be fair to Rooney (depite you ignoring the fact) he wasn't brought in to make us more attacking - the board want progressive football, playing across the back, then through the thirds.
PS ... at the moment out of the three team promoted last season the two progressive ones are performing worse than the one who plays in transitions.
Villa are doing rather well as they are probably the least "progressive" team in the Premiership.
It's just barmy - people here just do not understand football. As Le Mod keeps trying to point out - Rooney hasn't even got a system he is trying to play too - so far we've played at least four different ones under him.
.... and if you think Rooney's record at Derby (where he wasn't actually under that much pressure for results because everyone assumed they were going down) and DC United (are you taking the piss ?) makes him "world class" then i'd hate to see your definition of "underwhelming"
You asked how others see us improving the style of play with the limited for financial resources. You also saw d that no one gives you a reasonable response and calls you names.
I explained that based on the sound bites of the board. WR will bring in more revenue. He also has championship experience. He has proved that he can improve teams on a limited budget and so I guess they believe with better finding he can not.only bring in more money, but improve the players we currently have anday e even bring higher calibre players based on his standing in the game?
Surely that makes at least a little sense? Maybe it won't lead to success, but you can at least understand why they believe that has a better chance right? Not to mention hiring 2 highly respected young coaches to work alongside him.
But to dramatically change a style of play takes time, see back to my post about Burnley.
I get being frustrated if we've endured months of poor performances. Rooney has brough some players in and it still hasn't helped, but he has barely started and it's like we are 2 games away from getting relegated. He kept a poor Derby team up, and would have not only kept them up, but finished above us if it wasn't for the point deduction. He was 36! Is it not possible with better players, good coaches, some backing in the summer, that he could build a really successful team? More successful than the previous manager?
Not even criticizing you now, just asking your opinion and wanting and explanation if you disagree?
Here you go - this is what i posted earlier ..... how on earth is this me writing Cook off
"To be fair though, as CEO he's the public face of the business and he acts similarly to many of the better CEOs i've worked for. It's a lot about pushing ambition, excellence, positivity, teamwork, and setting the goal and teaching the vision and putting a team in place to pass that vision and ambition through his team leaders or departmental managers all the way through the business.
For me he's about as good as it gets in British football as a CEO ...."
"You asked how others see us improving the style of play with the limited for financial resources"
BUT I DIDN'T !!! - that was someone else - can you see why i get so frustrated that time after time after time people ask me to justify things i haven't even posted ? ... and accuse me of things i haven't posted.
The one bloke even accused me of being the sole reason for causing the booing of Rooney after the Hull game
Just to help you out a little scroll back and read WR Blue's post where HE says "I hope we can make this transition to the new style work but I am concerned. I would be interested to hear from those who are confident about it - how do they see this working with the players we have and the financial restrictions we have?"
It's not difficult to work out who has posted what surely ?
Don't understand football. What are your qualifications again?
Just to be clear, I am an FA qualified coach and coached for a fair few years. But I am sure you are as well.
You seem to be missing the point that he improved a poor team.
The stats and performances look worse because he is trying to play a different style. One that as JJ was quoted very recently in saying, some players are finding hard to adapt. I personal find it amusing that professional footballers cannot play more than more style of football. Especially at championship level.
I would rather spend the next month, trying to play the way we want to play moving forward, learn who can already play that way, see who has the potential of playing that way, whilst also knowing who needs to be replaced.
What's the alternative. Keep a team and play a limited style of football because that is all they are capable of? This board wants more than sitting back and hitting teams on the break. They have backed it up with statistics and also said that they want fans to be entertained.
Just because these current players can't do it, doesn't mean it's the managers fault. It might just mean that we need to bring some players in who can play that way.
In the meantime, they will learn and get better. It will possibly go more smoothly if home environments are positive, not toxic. People can have there own opinions, I think a lot of people are struggling to understand the sheer anger and toxicity so early into an appointment with everything else that is going on?
For all we know, the commercial side of having WR as manager has brough in enough money to avoid us failing FFP and facing another points deduction. But like the owner said, not everything can be disclosed.
You keep quoting other posters and then adding to there views and then distance yourself from peoples discussion.
You say Cook is the best CEO and also state comment about the difference between food standards?
If you are fed up of people getting your views wrong, just state them.
What are you disappointed about so badly right now?
Yeah I agree with all of the points you’ve made I just wish others in the fan base saw things the way you do.
I haven’t heard much of what was discussed but someone I know who was present said Rooney, really impressed him with his footballing knowledge.
This is from someone that wasn’t a fan of Rooney, whatsoever. He was strongly behind JE.
If Rooney, is able to turn him around he can turn the other doubters too.
WR BlueAs I said in the post just prior, it's the football side that concerns me. The beauty of football is that we can all enjoy seeing how different footballing strategies pan out. As a fan I hope it goes really well, but I have concerns about how for us it will go. The primary concern is around our ability to adopt this drastic change in style with the players we have/can get in the near future.
There's clearly some positivity around which is great. I'd be interested to hear the nuts and bolts of how others think that this change of style is going to be accomplished considering FFP, our current squad, our need to avoid relegation etc.
We have to give it more time for starters. This is a long haul job.
You've half answered the question yourself...FFP means we can't just do a vile or dingles and cheat the system (those loopholes are gone) and buy an all singing, dancing, Brazil lite squad in one window.
We've got dead wood to replace and income to raise, I think you are looking at 2 windows minimum before it'll start taking shape.
We're 6 games in, I hope the patience message gets across to a few more because it's needed. The future looks great, if people can look a bit further than 6 games.
ZLAMMERwhat was Wayne's presentation like?
It was really good. He’s a different animal off camera and not on the spot. No erms, no hesitation; his stuff made sense although the fact we beat Wednesday at the weekend probably helped.
I suspect some wouldn’t accept it regardless but I’m a believer now.