07:01, Wed 17 Nov
How likely is it that Rafiq would go to the Houses of Parliament, where his every word will be scrutinised in fine detail, and outright lie? Compared to what we now know about Yorkshire CCC and their ability and willingness to twist the truth?

Here we have a man who is detailing years of overt and insidious abuse, with his words backed by witnesses or by others who have experienced similar, while others have admitted what they have done and said…and your response is to surmise that the brown fella might be making shit up and come to the aid of one of the biggest perpetrators?
07:16, Wed 17 Nov
LondonBlue
Yes. It's not a contest of whose mental health was worse. It was bad for both of them. If Rafiq is lying about Ballance's considering he went through it himself, then that's not a great look. HTH.

No, not HTH, it’s not a great look on this thread when someone’s first concern is Gary Ballences mental well being. In fact it’s very odd.

Edit. I will also add, from someone so openly opposed to BLM and taking the knee, it’s very concerning this is your take on the matter.
07:34, Wed 17 Nov
Time for all footballers and cricket players to take the knee.

Simple, easy and clear.
mad
07:56, Wed 17 Nov
Spike
Apparently he made some comments about players from Asian backgrounds not being popular in club cricket because they don’t want to mix and socialise and trying to get them to pay their subs is like getting blood out of a stone. Something along those lines I think.
That is something anecdotally I'd have heard from the old duffers at Birmingham League cricket 15 or 20 years ago. I'm not aware of this nowadays. Take Moseley CC for instance and how that club has changed over the last 25 years the make up of the 1sts 2nds 3rds and 4ths
08:01, Wed 17 Nov
Well said - my thoughts exactly.

Unfortunately one of the things that allows discrimination to still fester in our society is the deniers & the victim blamers.

A sadly typical ‘response from the ‘I’m not a racist but………..’ brigade who allow such behaviour to continue.
08:19, Wed 17 Nov
Radavis
To be fair, I think you both make valid points, I also find it hard to believe that WCCC have engrained racism, but I’m sitting in a position of privilege that until recently I didn’t really fully comprehend. As has been said on here, racism is alive and well in our country and I’m as guilty as most to turning a blind eye at times when I probably shouldn’t have done.

If I can learn from recent revelations then I’d like to think most can. In reality education is the key, surely? I love that Dewali was taught to my 3 year old recently and wish I’d had the same education. Hopefully the next generation will be far more aware.

Fully agree with education being the key and nobody is too old to learn.

Take what bumble did for example (apparently exchanged messages with somebody in which he said that Asian cricketers don't get involved with drinking culture etc and therefore aren't popular). His apology sounded genuine and as though he was upset that he'd offended people. Rather than just saying 'you're a racist' and that's it, deleting him from the public eye, I think it's important to let people show contrition, learn from past behaviour and improve themselves. That is how society can truly change, rather than just castigating individuals which achieves very little. I think rafiq and his agent/lawyer made that exact point yesterday.

(Obvs it's depends on the severity of the racism/bullying. Some of the more severe elements are unforgivable and also it depends on the individual genuinely wanting to change)
08:35, Wed 17 Nov
Antonio Gramsci
Time for all footballers and cricket players to take the knee.

Simple, easy and clear.

Should we get all the spectators to take the knee too - bit like a one minute silence?
23/01/20 Mad: I'll stop moaning now.
08:44, Wed 17 Nov
B_C_F_C
Antonio Gramsci
Time for all footballers and cricket players to take the knee.

Simple, easy and clear.

Should we get all the spectators to take the knee too - bit like a one minute silence?

That’s the natural progression. 🤷‍♂️
08:48, Wed 17 Nov
Radavis
B_C_F_C
Antonio Gramsci
Time for all footballers and cricket players to take the knee.

Simple, easy and clear.

Should we get all the spectators to take the knee too - bit like a one minute silence?

That’s the natural progression. 🤷‍♂️

Indeed... and then lets spread it to be a ritual before all performances... theatre, concerts etc..
23/01/20 Mad: I'll stop moaning now.
08:52, Wed 17 Nov
The basic problem is that people who make racist remarks:

a) they aren't aware they are being racist and so cannot remember uttering the remarks because they are unaware of their impact;

b) they wouldn't make them in the first place if they weren't sypmptomatic of their deep long-held beliefs.
08:56, Wed 17 Nov
B_C_F_C
Antonio Gramsci
Time for all footballers and cricket players to take the knee.

Simple, easy and clear.

Should we get all the spectators to take the knee too - bit like a one minute silence?

That’s the natural progression. 🤷‍♂️

Wouldn’t fancy trying to kneel between the seats at Stans. We’d have to do it side on,
09:00, Wed 17 Nov
Radavis
B_C_F_C
Antonio Gramsci
Time for all footballers and cricket players to take the knee.

Simple, easy and clear.

Should we get all the spectators to take the knee too - bit like a one minute silence?

That’s the natural progression. 🤷‍♂️

Indeed... and then lets spread it to be a ritual before all performances... theatre, concerts etc..

Yes. Great point. The woke brigade will have us all shuffling around on our knees to go about our everyday living if we aren’t careful.

This is the kind of specious thinking that ultimately allows racism to continue. It makes me sad.
09:01, Wed 17 Nov
Fat Buddha
Radavis
B_C_F_C
Antonio Gramsci
Time for all footballers and cricket players to take the knee.

Simple, easy and clear.

Should we get all the spectators to take the knee too - bit like a one minute silence?

That’s the natural progression. 🤷‍♂️

Indeed... and then lets spread it to be a ritual before all performances... theatre, concerts etc..

Yes. Great point. The woke brigade will have us all shuffling around on our knees to go about our everyday living if we aren’t careful.

This is the kind of specious thinking that ultimately allows racism to continue. It makes me sad.

I know, it’s the whataboutary and the ‘where does it end’ type of thinking that drives me nuts. You know where it ends, with a civil society, if that means some minor inconveniences then so be it.
09:15, Wed 17 Nov
B_C_F_C
Radavis
B_C_F_C
Antonio Gramsci
Time for all footballers and cricket players to take the knee.

Simple, easy and clear.

Should we get all the spectators to take the knee too - bit like a one minute silence?

That’s the natural progression. 🤷‍♂️

Indeed... and then lets spread it to be a ritual before all performances... theatre, concerts etc..

What do you have against sportsmen and women making a brief - but, hopefully, powerful - gesture (which ultimately makes no difference to your day) to show solidarity with a wider movement and to try to keep the focus on a problem which only the most closed-minded would argue doesn't exist in society?

No one is going to suggest that fans start taking the knee or that performers at theatres/concerts should do so as well (although good luck to them if they do). That's a point only you have raised.

I sincerely hope you'll think about why your responses in this thread are the way they are. The same applies to LondonBlue as well.
09:18, Wed 17 Nov
Yes. It's not a contest of whose mental health was worse. It was bad for both of them. If Rafiq is lying about Ballance's considering he went through it himself, then that's not a great look. HTH.

If he’s lying about something like that it’s more than “not a good look” IMO. On any level